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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the
leading edge touching first. This makes sense to gradually introduce braking, rather than possible brake pulses from wheel/pad interfaces which could lead to pads overheating, hardening, and sqealing. I've just got single screws on pads and was wondering if it is possible to mount these 'Toe-in' if there's no visable way to adjust them? All I can think of would be an angled washer and/or bolt, but never seen one. Or maybe just bending bolt on pad, grasping nut on end of bolt. Or possibly bending brake arm. None of those sound real good, and could be a Safety concern on brakes if based on faulty principles: parts stress, break, or move while riding. They are the smallest pad size like Kool-Stop's Continental size pad. Thank You, Phil Bailey Sarasota, FL |
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#2
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
On 3 Jan 2007 10:07:27 -0800, "ddog" wrote:
I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the leading edge touching first. This makes sense to gradually introduce braking, rather than possible brake pulses from wheel/pad interfaces which could lead to pads overheating, hardening, and sqealing. I've just got single screws on pads and was wondering if it is possible to mount these 'Toe-in' if there's no visable way to adjust them? All I can think of would be an angled washer and/or bolt, but never seen one. Or maybe just bending bolt on pad, grasping nut on end of bolt. Or possibly bending brake arm. None of those sound real good, and could be a Safety concern on brakes if based on faulty principles: parts stress, break, or move while riding. They are the smallest pad size like Kool-Stop's Continental size pad. Don't bother. Even if you manage to get the pads the way you have been led to believe is "correct", after (at most) a week's riding they will be worn flat. If you want to "gradually introduce braking", just don't squeeze so hard. |
#3
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
OK, I think this method was proposed to break new shoes in, and the
rust(red) brakes are notorius to sqeaking. I did get confused as to the breaking in and operating differences. But it actually does sound like a good operational mechanism to have in brakes. Guess, I'll have to break down and buy new wheels one of the days any way, ha-ha. Thanks, Phil Bailey |
#4
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
ddog wrote: I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the leading edge touching first. On Weinmann center pulls, as far as I know the toe-in thing was just to keep them from squeaking, not to gradually introduce braking. The old Schwinn manuals said to phsyically bend the brake arm slightly with a wrench if the brakes started to squeak. Their stock brake pad position was nearly parallel to the rim surface and that is probably the best way to use them. I've also heard of placing a shim on one side of the brake shoe to hold it at an angle. My feeling is that if the brakes aren't squeaking, don't bother. |
#5
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
ddog wrote: I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the leading edge touching first. This makes sense to gradually introduce braking, rather than possible brake pulses from wheel/pad interfaces which could lead to pads overheating, hardening, and sqealing. I prefered the leading edge to touch first when using single pivot brakes because I ride in traffic and have many occasions to stop and wait. It takes less effort to hold the cycle still with a little weight on a pedal, comfortable for me. Double pivot brakes are nice. Or possibly bending brake arm. None of those sound real good, and could be a Safety concern on brakes if based on faulty principles: parts stress, break, or move while riding. It only takes a bend of a few degrees from paralell to produce the effect. I never had one snap. The alloy is far from brittle. |
#6
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
wrote in message ps.com... ddog wrote: I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the leading edge touching first. On Weinmann center pulls, as far as I know the toe-in thing was just to keep them from squeaking, not to gradually introduce braking. The old Schwinn manuals said to phsyically bend the brake arm slightly with a wrench if the brakes started to squeak. Their stock brake pad position was nearly parallel to the rim surface and that is probably the best way to use them. I've also heard of placing a shim on one side of the brake shoe to hold it at an angle. My feeling is that if the brakes aren't squeaking, don't bother. I agree with you - "if the brakes aren't squeaking". I recently bought a Park brake arm adjusting tool to ad to my collection of junk. Prior to that I've always used a large adjustable (crescent) wrench to toe the arms in about .5mm. I remove the wheel and brake blocks and bend the arms with the wrench tightly closed on the brake block area. If there's a chance of marring the arm I put tape on it. I recently got a set of old Campy NR calipers. The rear was like new but the front one had some corrosion. I tore them down and switched spindles so that I could put the rear caliper on the front. When I installed them I found that the toe in was reversed and it appeared that they came from the factory that way. I adjusted the toe, no problem. Mafac brakes HAD to have the toe in adjusted PERIOD. Chas. |
#7
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
dalebenjamin wrote: ddog wrote: Or possibly bending brake arm. None of those sound real good, and could be a Safety concern on brakes if based on faulty principles: parts stress, break, or move while riding. It only takes a bend of a few degrees from paralell to produce the effect. I never had one snap. The alloy is far from brittle. That's the way we did it in the beforetime. Use a crescent wrench. Or get some pads that allow for toeing in. Most cartridge pads, even the cheap tektros on my fixie let you toe in w/o bending. |
#8
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
I wasn't aware that AL bent at all, especially 36 year old AL - ???
Kind of like the shim idea mentioned, so can probably make a shim out of bending a Coke can or something like that. If it can break, it will with me. I want to keep the centerpulls though, since I'll just wait until they come back in style :-) Really though, I want to keep 27" wheels and same brake calipers since the frame was designed around them (more so the 27" wheels than the calipers). Braking is a big liability and requires many fragile equilibrium levels that should be adhered to maintain proper balance in every dimension forces are applied. Tektro 200 levers, new cable/housing, and rust pads (with shims) should work fine. If I ever do need new wheels when install wider IRD 5 sp freewheel, I will put 27" rims back on: already have wheel components selected at around $225 per wheel (same as a Sheldon/Harris suggested/constructed db 1-1/4" wheel). Braking for me is not anything I want to "Pioneer" on my bike, lol. Just want to menu select the best value items that will fit my bike 'for sure'. |
#9
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
ddog wrote:
I've recently seen this is the correct way to mount pads, with the leading edge touching first. This makes sense to gradually introduce braking, rather than possible brake pulses from wheel/pad interfaces which could lead to pads overheating, hardening, and sqealing. I've just got single screws on pads and was wondering if it is possible to mount these 'Toe-in' if there's no visable way to adjust them? All I can think of would be an angled washer and/or bolt, but never seen one. Or maybe just bending bolt on pad, grasping nut on end of bolt. Or possibly bending brake arm. None of those sound real good, and could be a Safety concern on brakes if based on faulty principles: parts stress, break, or move while riding. They are the smallest pad size like Kool-Stop's Continental size pad. Point your fingers in the direction of a spinning wheel and touch the tire lightly. Your hand is pulled down to the tire. Now try that backwards. As your finger touches the tire it will resonate. Brake calipers can resonate like that in an audible range. While that doesn't affect brake performance, it's annoying. If you have new pads and a new caliper yes, the arms may be bent until the front of the pad touches with ~~1mm space at the back of the shoe. That is a one-time adjustment for classic brakes which have no other provision for shoe angle adjustment. It isn't twenty degrees and don't do it repeatedly. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#10
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How to mount Old Weinmann centerpull brake pads "Toe-in"
Thanks Andrew,
When and if I finally get my Scott Mathauser pads sent to me, I'll have to consider between the shim and bend option. I can measure a shim easier than I can bend 1mm a small bent part. Thanks again for the 'bending' alternative explained as a steel stud on pad and not AL lever on centerpull calipers. That's what I was thinking of first, but got sidetracked on thinking about AL lever arm touching toe-in at first, and then rotate to flush with more pressure. What if, ... lol. |
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