Inexpensive bike for both touring and off road

datakoll wrote:
do not show quoted text -
well, one can braze and weld all the live long day but who follows
dipping the frame in caustic rinsing and neutralizing then repainting
with primer then finish ?
caveyacht !

Nick L Plate wrote:
Is caustic soda the normal wash? Instructions I have for cycle frame
brazing say to use borax as the flux. This can be washed off with
water, can it not? There is nothing about drilling forks, stays and
headtube to permit the removal.

Phosphoric acid was his the usual etch on steel before primer.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"DanKMTB" wrote:
[...]
The only problem I've ever had with a hanger was on my MTB, when I
smashed the derailler off a rock trying to keep up with a guy that was
much faster/better than me on a downhill section. I don't put my
bikes down drivetrain side down, ever.

Even when you crash?

Most aluminium alloy MTB's have bolt on derailer hangers that can be
replaced.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Mar 2, 7:37*pm, A Muzi wrote:
*datakoll wrote:
do not show quoted text -
well, one can braze and weld all the live long day but who follows
dipping the frame in caustic rinsing and neutralizing then repainting
with primer then finish ?
caveyacht !
Nick L Plate wrote:
Is caustic soda the normal wash? *Instructions I have for cycle frame
brazing say to use borax as the flux. *This can be washed off with
water, can it not? * There is nothing about drilling forks, stays and
headtube to permit the removal.

Phosphoric acid was his the usual etch on steel before primer.
--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

does phosphoric leave the solid unburned paint intact suitable for an
new overcoat ?

Nick L Plate wrote:
On 2 Mar, 00:30, datakoll wrote:
do not show quoted text -

well, one can braze and weld all the live long day but who follows
dipping the frame in caustic rinsing and neutralizing then repainting
with primer then finish ?

caveyacht !

Is caustic soda the normal wash? Instructions I have for cycle frame
brazing say to use borax as the flux. This can be washed off with
water, can it not?

Use sodium bicarbonate to remove the borax flux residue.

datakoll wrote:
caveyacht ! premptore....
I dunno. I know caustic from removing rust. Not seeing the tubes
insides, assume rust and go for the complete steel treatment.
Inquiries on this following procedure for braze or weld ons brings
blank looks some maybe as humor positive or negative.
However, recommendations for cleaning and painting the obviuosly
burned out inside surface are neither seen heard smelled or, so far
stepped into.
Possible to coat with thinned linseed then thinned Rusto.
But cleaning with acetone ect is wishfull thinking where the tone is
blistering all interior tube paint.
Interior coats of epoxy ??? I dunno. Ask Andy Muzi.

I have a rack installation for a new 29er Redline now second coated
with white rusto. I lean tousing grade 7-8 bolts for clamp stops and
fasteners thus avoiding the confusion with a weaker less annoying
connectio n.

I just pulled the top and down tubes out of a well-worn 1973 Raleigh.

The inside surfaces are bare grey steel except for some brown
discoloration in the last inch or two of the lower end of the downtube.
(and a lump of errant brass well outside the joint area inside the front
of the top tube)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Nick L Plate wrote:
On 1 Mar, 19:06, jim beam wrote:

eh? what are those "obvious reasons"?

goading you.
TJ

LOL, no that's not one of the reasons, but I suppose that it's a side
benefit!

The cro-mo forks are more shock absorbent and less susceptible to
catastrophic failure due to fatigue. Even Cannondale uses a chromoly
fork on their aluminum touring bicycle, as does Koga-Miyata and REI
(Safari). Perhaps there is a touring bicycle somewhere that uses an
aluminum fork, but I doubt it. It'd be a good reason to avoid that bicycle.

Another reason they don't use them is because in order to make an
aluminum fork strong enough and rugged enough for a touring bicycle it'd
have to use very large diameter tubing, which would make it difficult to
mount certain kinds of low rider racks and other fork mounted accessories.

One other reason that steel is preferred for touring frames is the
availability of S&S Torque couplers for steel frames. This is a very
popular, though costly retrofit for touring bicycles. Personally I'd opt
for a the Dahon Tournado for a new touring bike if I wanted one that
could be disassembled, rather than S&S couplers. I had to laugh at the
description for the Tournado on the Dahon web site where they tout
"Grant Petersen designed forged, dual-pivot, long-reach brakes."

I remember the old Cannondale aluminum tandem which had to use such huge
diameter tubing to compensate that the joke was that they could put
access panels on the tubes so riders could use the interior for storage.

A Muzi wrote:

I just pulled the top and down tubes out of a well-worn 1973 Raleigh.

Why?

The inside surfaces are bare grey steel except for some brown
discoloration in the last inch or two of the lower end of the downtube.

That's confidence-inspiring.

Chalo

A Muzi wrote:
I just pulled the top and down tubes out of a well-worn 1973 Raleigh.

Chalo wrote:
Why?
To replace then crash-crunched tubes

The inside surfaces are bare grey steel except for some brown
discoloration in the last inch or two of the lower end of the downtube.
That's confidence-inspiring.

It's a light brown surface discoloration, nothing serious. Well, at
least compared to the folded over front of that tube!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3 Mar, 01:06, SMS wrote:
Nick L Plate wrote:
On 2 Mar, 00:30, datakoll wrote:
do not show quoted text -

well, one can braze and weld all the live long day but who follows
dipping the frame in caustic rinsing and neutralizing then repainting
with primer then finish ?

caveyacht !

Is caustic soda the normal wash? *Instructions I have for cycle frame
brazing say to use borax as the flux. *This can be washed off with
water, can it not?

Use sodium bicarbonate to remove the borax flux residue.

For internal flux removal wouldn't washing soda be more suitable?
Followed by a couple of water rinses.
TJ

SMS wrote:
Nick L Plate wrote:
On 1 Mar, 19:06, jim beam wrote:

eh? what are those "obvious reasons"?

goading you.
TJ

LOL, no that's not one of the reasons, but I suppose that it's a side
benefit!

The cro-mo forks are more shock absorbent and less susceptible to
catastrophic failure due to fatigue.

oh wow, what a peach!

er, no, guy.

1. steel fatigues.
2. steel may be springy, but it's got no hysteresis curve, so it doesn't
absorb.


Even Cannondale uses a chromoly
fork on their aluminum touring bicycle, as does Koga-Miyata and REI
(Safari). Perhaps there is a touring bicycle somewhere that uses an
aluminum fork, but I doubt it. It'd be a good reason to avoid that bicycle.

Another reason they don't use them is because in order to make an
aluminum fork strong enough and rugged enough for a touring bicycle it'd
have to use very large diameter tubing, which would make it difficult to
mount certain kinds of low rider racks and other fork mounted accessories.

really? how?



One other reason that steel is preferred for touring frames is the
availability of S&S Torque couplers for steel frames.

sure, that affects shock absorption and fatigue resistance!


This is a very
popular, though costly retrofit for touring bicycles. Personally I'd opt
for a the Dahon Tournado for a new touring bike if I wanted one that
could be disassembled, rather than S&S couplers. I had to laugh at the
description for the Tournado on the Dahon web site where they tout
"Grant Petersen designed forged, dual-pivot, long-reach brakes."

I remember the old Cannondale aluminum tandem which had to use such huge
diameter tubing to compensate that the joke was that they could put
access panels on the tubes so riders could use the interior for storage.

what a homely little jobstian quip. are you two related?

bottom line, you're presenting underinformed guesswork and mere
supposition as fact. that's otherwise known as "bull****ting".

have a nice day.