Have you ever relaced changing 14g to 15g?

On 4/26/2013 5:54 PM, MK1000 wrote:
On 26/04/2013 4:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/26/2013 12:44 PM, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke
wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I
don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old
green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors
doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid
full price about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it
came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed
black, the spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed
on the D), and the wrench is just barely too small to fit
the nipple flats, no matter how I try. On the other hand the
wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a
nuisance.

So what is going on?

Start with wrench above the nipple.
Press down firmly.

I'm not sure I understand this, but I think you mean to sort
of rotate it on, i.e. levering the handle of the wrench down
to rotate the jaws on-

If it slides on easily from the side, it's too loose.

I tried again with all this in mind. Pressing firmly, either
from the side or while rotating it down, did nothing. Nor
did pressing from the side with all my strength, one thumb
on top of the other, as much as I could stand it. But by
levering the handle up and down repeatedly, while
simultaneously pressing the jaws against the nipple with all
my remaining strength, I was able to work the jaws on about
half-way in- still not enough to get the nipple all the way
into the pocket.

Getting the jaws off was not easy either. I had to lever
them off as well. All this clearly damaged the nipple flats:
in fact, I believe what I succeeded in doing was to remove
the chrome plating, exposing the brass underneath. Putting
the jaws on again after this, though difficult, was at least
manageable, and I was almost able to get the nipple all the
way into the pocket. Trying again on a second nipple was
just as difficult as with the first, and taking it off
earlier clearly showed I was gouging the nipple flats.

Although I don't see how it could be- don't DT 14g come with
the nipples in the box?- it would seem that Jay is right,
and these are outsized nipples.


My comments were for DT 2.0 and 1.8 nipples. If they are
something else then I don't know.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/26/2013 5:59 PM, MK1000 wrote:
On 26/04/2013 2:47 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 26, 10:44 am, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:


It looks like you have DT spokes with some Japanese
nipples -- which
are slightly larger across the flats. You need the Park
red wrench for
those. When you re-build, though, you will want to use DT
nipples, so
keep the black. Your multi-wrench has a Japanese slot
(3.45mm), so
you can use that to take your wheel apart.

Looks like you are right, although I'm surprised Topeak
wouldn't have made the tool to handle what I would imagine
is the most common North American size. It has three
wrenches, marked 13g, 14g, and 15g.


DT nipples in 2.0 and in 1.8 use the same headed blank and
take the same wrench.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Apr 27, 1:23*am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

* * On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71
http://www.uniortools.com/katimages/19444.jpg probably always over
£10

Last time this discussion came up in detail the green horseshoe Park
nipple key at 0.130" was that which was determined most suitable of
the range by the majority of respondents. Icetoolz was also
recommended with a similar style but better enacted key. For European
brass nipples of 15 or 14swg (1.8mm or 2.0mm) 0.130" is the size to
go for. The smaller size (o.127") is just a PIA .

I'm happy just using the Cyclo mini key on my own builds, but modern
machine-built wheels are built dry with high spoke tension and it is
too uncomfortable for me to use on more than four spokes so the Unior
then becomes my preferred tool. For a single nipple key capable of
reasonable speed of work and capable of cracking loose those cheapo
wheels I recommend the Spokey double-pecker jobbee.

On Apr 26, 6:57 pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:23 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:



On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71http://www.uniortools.com/katimages/19444.jpg probably always over
£10

Last time this discussion came up in detail the green horseshoe Park
nipple key at 0.130" was that which was determined most suitable of
the range by the majority of respondents.

The black one sits on the wooden base of my truing stand (there is
green and red and... in the bucket, too). Only one nipple of one
wheel is troublesomely rounded - and that only on one side.

Icetoolz was also
recommended with a similar style but better enacted key. For European
brass nipples of 15 or 14swg (1.8mm or 2.0mm) 0.130" is the size to
go for. The smaller size (o.127") is just a PIA .

I'm happy just using the Cyclo mini key on my own builds, but modern
machine-built wheels are built dry with high spoke tension and it is
too uncomfortable for me to use on more than four spokes so the Unior
then becomes my preferred tool. For a single nipple key capable of
reasonable speed of work and capable of cracking loose those cheapo
wheels I recommend the Spokey double-pecker jobbee.

I love this newsgroup!

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:57:27 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On Apr 27, 1:23*am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

* * On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

--
davethedave

On Apr 27, 4:10 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:57:27 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six



wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:23 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

All accounts are kept in binary computing systems nowadays anyway, so
01000111 / 010001111100100

On Apr 27, 12:10*pm, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:57:27 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six









wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:23*am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

* * On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg* the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit * *Current cost £0.71

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?
--
Cheers,

John B.

officially pence (they've dropped the "new"), generally "p", peas is
too generous a term as for something like 15 or so years they've been
copper plated steel. rather than a high copper bronze. I'd rather
have the green peas. The bronze coins are getting taken out of
currency as their value exceeds the claimed currency.

On Apr 27, 4:48*pm, davethedave wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

--
davethedave

I'd rather have broad beans. Could be our new currency base in 4
years, it'll take that long to break apart the British legislated
court system. Either that will happen or we will possibly under
martial law. I see a good future market for scrambler bikes and
spirit stills.