Have you ever relaced changing 14g to 15g?

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:48:46 +0300, davethedave
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

I don't suppose that y'all use half-penny any more :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:25:01 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.


And of course, a Pound used to be worth 240 pennies and now it is only
100. But, I understand that the Guinea is still used in horse racing
:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Apr 27, 4:10 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:57:27 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six



wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:23 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card.

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

All accounts are kept in binary computing systems nowadays anyway, so
01000111 / 010001111100100

Can you do that with 4 bits?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Apr 27, 5:19 pm, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:



On Apr 27, 4:10 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 18:57:27 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:23 am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:44:54 -0400, MK1000 wrote:
On 25/04/2013 7:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:25 pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2013 2:25 PM, MK1000 wrote:

On 25/04/2013 12:58 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:
On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24,
10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks again for replies. Given the answers, I reminded
myself of what may be the deciding factor: I have one of
those black Park Tools horseshoe-shaped spoke wrenches. It
doesn't seem to fit the 14g DT nipples I have, but I don't
want to buy another. Is it made rather for the size of DT
15/16, or maybe even Wheelsmith 2.0?

Is the vinyl cover on your tool black or do you have the
wrong color?

Must be the wrong color -- or not Park. I use the old green or black
on DT 3.23 nipples. The difference between the two colors doesn't seem
to be meaningful on brass nips at reasonable torque.

It is a genuine Park Tools USA, not an eBay clone- I paid full price
about a year or two ago at a major LBS, and it came on a Park card..

I just checked everything else: the vinyl cover is indeed black, the
spoke heads are stamped DT (with the T overlayed on the D), and the
wrench is just barely too small to fit the nipple flats, no matter how I
try. On the other hand the wrench marked "14g" in my Topeak Alien XS
fits perfectly.

I could build with that wrench, but it would be a bit of a nuisance.

So what is going on?

Park Tools sell four different size spoke wrenches, the SW-0 (Black)
is marked for 80 ga./.127" nipple/3/30 mm; the SW-1 (Green) for 80
ga./.130" nipple/2/30 mm; the SW-2 (Red) for 80 ga./.136" nipple/3.45
mm; and the SW-2 (Blue) for 105 ga./,156" nipple/3.96mm.

They also sell a "Master Mechanic Spoke Wrench", a "Four Sided Spoke
Wrench", a spoke wrench for Mavic wheels, a spoke wrench for Shimano
wheels, a "Triple Spoke Wrench" and even an "Adjustable Spoke Wrench"
and even more that I'm too lazy to list.

As the old saying goes, "you pays your money and you takes your
choice" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

http://www.ceeway.com/spoke%20key.jpg the old Cyclo nipple key, fits
in with regular puncture repair kit Current cost £0.71

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

All accounts are kept in binary computing systems nowadays anyway, so
01000111 / 010001111100100

Can you do that with 4 bits?


"Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar"

On Apr 25, 6:57 pm, Dan O wrote:
On Apr 25, 6:51 pm, Dan O wrote:



On Apr 25, 7:28 am, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Apr 24, 10:08 pm, Dan O wrote:

On Apr 24, 9:58 pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Apr 24, 8:46 pm, MK1000 wrote:

On 24/04/2013 2:41 PM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 24, 10:42 am, wrote:

On 4/24/2013 10:27 AM, MK1000 wrote:

Thanks for your replies-

Jobst already covered this (see above)

Yes, in general terms. The question is how to apply them in this case.

I think the hubs as new would have been fine for 15/16. Spocalc doesn't
have the exact model in the database, and I can't accurately measure to
.1mm, but I suspect the hole size is 2.4mm, versus 2.3mm for the
comparable Campagnolo, and 2.1mm as what Jobst has described as ideal
for 15/16. So I would think it is still acceptable, if the spoke elbow
was formed correctly at manufacture- about 100 degrees, unlike
apparently for DT at least a few years back. I don't know the situation
with DT spokes now, nor what the Wheelsmith elbow angle is.

Now comparing replacing a 14 with a 15, versus a 15 with a 15, the
latter, being narrower, would have made a narrower but deeper
impression, in effect a greater enlargement of the hole. So I would
think replacing a 14 with a 15 should still be fine, but maybe not the
other way around.

Could you? Sure.
Would I? No.

And why bother? Any of the DB 14G(/15/17) spokes are fine --
particularly with a 120mm(126mm?) hub with an MA2 clone.

Yes, I agree. But these are really fine hubs and likewise the rim, so it
would be nice to make the build as close to ideal as possible. By the
way as an original, it's a 5 speed/120mm set.

There were lots of fine wheels built before 1981.
Exactly. Also a lot of bad ones. Jobst sifted the good practices from
the bad, demonstrated what made each that way, distilled the good down
to their essences, and put it all into an efficient procedure that we
could all use. A mighty fine achievement.

The Bicycle Wheel documented pretty common building techniques --
except for stress relieving, which many were doing already under the
banner of side-loading, twist relieving and correcting spoke angle.
The Book did cover some interesting stuff...

Is it too late to get an autographed copy? (where have you gone, Joe
Dimaggio?)

... and debunked certain myths
(hanging/standing on spokes), but wheel reliability increased in the
70s because of high quality spokes and not because of any sea change
in wheel building technique, IMO.

I would build your wheel on a 14g DB DT spoke. No fuss, no muss -- no
concern over OS holes, and on a 120mm hub with an E2 clone, you will
have a first-class wheel that will stay true if built right.

I've got a Phil / ModE front wheel with 40 spokes (bought on
Craigslist - probably stolen off a nice tandem, though that thought
didn't occur to me at the time - the guy seemed nice enough and needed
the money for baby formula) - as bulletproof as they come (empirical
evidence available on request).

If it's really a ModE, then it would be around '75-6ish, although the
were offered concurrently with the E2 through the end of the '70s
IIRC. Phil 40 hole hubs were popular with the touring set and used on
singles.

That really is kind of an odd wheel because back when the ModE hit the
market along with the Elan tire, it was considered "scary light" for a
clincher wheel -- and on a 40 hole hub, I would expect to see a
Weinmann Concave or a Super Champ Mod 58, or the equivalent Rigida.
You wouldn't go touring on a ModE -- not in '75, although there were
always the odd balls who did loaded tours on sew-up wheels, etc. -- so
who knows. Maybe this was some guy's credit-card touring wheel. It
was clearly the product of some thought and a rarity in the Portland
area at the time.

Going out to the garage to check...

... well, it's buried behind a bunch of stuff out there and I can't
get to it right now; but I understood it to be a
"vintage" (discontinued model) Mavic rim, in apparently "NOS"
condition - even the "CD" treatment unscathed by brake pads until I
started riding on it.

Having dug far enough to get the lawnmower out today, I dug a little
deeper and came out with the wheel:

It's a Module 3 CD.

On Apr 27, 1:25*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.

I think most of us west of the Atlantic have no idea what you guys are
talking about. And I suspect we're happier because of that.

- Frank Krygowski

On Apr 27, 9:41 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 27, 1:25 pm, Phil W Lee wrote:



davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.

I think most of us west of the Atlantic have no idea what you guys are
talking about. And I suspect we're happier because of that.


Ever seen National Lampoon's "European Vacation"? The Griswolds are
checking into their London hotel, the clerk and his wife on the other
side of the counter are talking (in English) to each other about the
Griswolds, and Clark, utterly perplexed, starts flipping through his
translation booklet :-)

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:41:42 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Apr 27, 1:25*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.

I think most of us west of the Atlantic have no idea what you guys are
talking about. And I suspect we're happier because of that.

- Frank Krygowski

Probably so. I was asked how much something was the other day and I
replied "four bits". The tourists thought I was talking Thai :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

Op 28-4-2013 6:41, Frank Krygowski schreef:
On Apr 27, 1:25 pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.

I think most of us west of the Atlantic have no idea what you guys are
talking about. And I suspect we're happier because of that.

- Frank Krygowski

Most of us on East of the Atlantic either. UK is an island in more
than one way. One large open air museum...

Lou

On Apr 28, 12:49*am, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:25:01 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:









davethedave considered Sat, 27 Apr 2013
18:48:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:10:41 +0700, J.B.Slocomb wrote:

Very much off topic, but what do you call that 0.71 th of a Pound? It
used to be pennies, shillings and pounds but today?

Pence old bean. Pounds and pence. seventy one pee.

It should be noted that these are now New Pence (p) worth 2.4 old
Pence (d).
The singular would be Penny and New Penny, but we don't generally use
the New any more, as it's been quite a few years since the change.
I still regard a 50p piece as a ten-bob-bit though, and will never
forgive them for issuing 20p pieces instead of 25p ones, which would
have been Crowns.

And of course, a Pound used to be worth 240 pennies and now it is only
100. But, I understand that the Guinea is still used in horse racing
:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I believe (loosely held) the shilling on the pound was the auctioneers
fee.