Ultegra shifter problem

AMuzi wrote:
John B. wrote:


Out of curiosity, how much does a current copy cost? I ask because the
Machinery's Handbook, the machinist's bible here in the U.S., is round
about $100 a copy; on sale.


Or not:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ke....y=0&hs=Submit


They've apparently got at least one on special, for $1263.13!

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.de...qsort=r&page=9

I assume that's a typo.

My solution, back in the day, was to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer
and tell my boss that I needed one, and a Mark's Handbook as well.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Phil W Lee wrote:
Frank considered Sun, 11 Sep
2011 19:46:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

AMuzi wrote:
John B. wrote:


Out of curiosity, how much does a current copy cost? I ask because the
Machinery's Handbook, the machinist's bible here in the U.S., is round
about $100 a copy; on sale.


Or not:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ke....y=0&hs=Submit


They've apparently got at least one on special, for $1263.13!

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.de...qsort=r&page=9

I assume that's a typo.

My solution, back in the day, was to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer
and tell my boss that I needed one, and a Mark's Handbook as well.

This indicates a general problem with standards, that they aren't good
standards if they are hidden away in expensive tomes that few
practitioners can afford.
Nobody can work to a standard if they don't have the data on what it
is, far less if they don't even know it exists.

To be a useful standard, something has to be generally available to
those who will (or should) be working to it, and free the design
engineer from having to specify every tiny detail even when it is
completely normal.

Making the standards available is what the Zeus book does very well.

It's cheap, it's robust, and it's concise enough that you can find
what you are needing easily, even before you have a good working
knowledge of the subject, and learn your way around it fast.

Sure, it's not complete - but it contains the data you are going to be
needing for probably 99.9% of workshop tasks, which is also enough to
tell you that if what you are doing isn't in there, it is unusual, and
you probably need a good reason to be doing it.

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. There are thousands of
sources of basic information on standard threaded fasteners. Starrett
probably still gives away plastic cards with tap drill sizes, etc. I've
got several spiral bound notebooks, shirt pocket size, from Morse
Cutting Tools that cover lots of different data for machinists.

The value of the Machinery's Handbook is that it has damned near every
bit of information a machinist would likely need, all in one place. As
an example, you may be able to find the detailed dimensions of a
standard light bulb thread on the intenet; but I could probably find it
faster in the Machinery's Handbook.

So for basic stuff, you might just look in the concise sources, or
online. If you do enough work that's a bit unusual, the Machinery's
Handbook is very handy. Another "horses for courses" thing.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:Phil W Lee wrote:
: Frank considered Sun, 11 Sep
: 2011 19:46:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:
:
: AMuzi wrote:
: John B. wrote:
:
:
: Out of curiosity, how much does a current copy cost? I ask because the
: Machinery's Handbook, the machinist's bible here in the U.S., is round
: about $100 a copy; on sale.
:
:
: Or not:
: http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ke....y=0&hs=Submit
:
:
: They've apparently got at least one on special, for $1263.13!
:
: http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.de...qsort=r&page=9
:
: I assume that's a typo.
:
: My solution, back in the day, was to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer
: and tell my boss that I needed one, and a Mark's Handbook as well.
:
: This indicates a general problem with standards, that they aren't good
: standards if they are hidden away in expensive tomes that few
: practitioners can afford.
: Nobody can work to a standard if they don't have the data on what it
: is, far less if they don't even know it exists.
:
: To be a useful standard, something has to be generally available to
: those who will (or should) be working to it, and free the design
: engineer from having to specify every tiny detail even when it is
: completely normal.
:
: Making the standards available is what the Zeus book does very well.
:
: It's cheap, it's robust, and it's concise enough that you can find
: what you are needing easily, even before you have a good working
: knowledge of the subject, and learn your way around it fast.
:
: Sure, it's not complete - but it contains the data you are going to be
: needing for probably 99.9% of workshop tasks, which is also enough to
: tell you that if what you are doing isn't in there, it is unusual, and
: you probably need a good reason to be doing it.

:It's not as bad as you make it out to be. There are thousands of
:sources of basic information on standard threaded fasteners. Starrett
robably still gives away plastic cards with tap drill sizes, etc. I've
:got several spiral bound notebooks, shirt pocket size, from Morse
:Cutting Tools that cover lots of different data for machinists.

Also, there's a Pocket Companion to the Handbook (for rather larger
than normal pockets) that has most of the stuff that's actually used
on the shop floor. It's about 20 bucks.

:The value of the Machinery's Handbook is that it has damned near every
:bit of information a machinist would likely need, all in one place. As
:an example, you may be able to find the detailed dimensions of a
:standard light bulb thread on the intenet; but I could probably find it
:faster in the Machinery's Handbook.

:So for basic stuff, you might just look in the concise sources, or
nline. If you do enough work that's a bit unusual, the Machinery's
:Handbook is very handy. Another "horses for courses" thing.

And really, $100 is cheap, compared to wasting your time doing
something wrong.


--
sig 40

Frank Krygowski wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:
Frank considered Sun, 11 Sep
2011 19:46:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

AMuzi wrote:
John B. wrote:


Out of curiosity, how much does a current copy cost? I ask because the
Machinery's Handbook, the machinist's bible here in the U.S., is round
about $100 a copy; on sale.


Or not:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ke....y=0&hs=Submit



They've apparently got at least one on special, for $1263.13!

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.de...qsort=r&page=9


I assume that's a typo.

My solution, back in the day, was to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer
and tell my boss that I needed one, and a Mark's Handbook as well.

This indicates a general problem with standards, that they aren't good
standards if they are hidden away in expensive tomes that few
practitioners can afford.
Nobody can work to a standard if they don't have the data on what it
is, far less if they don't even know it exists.

To be a useful standard, something has to be generally available to
those who will (or should) be working to it, and free the design
engineer from having to specify every tiny detail even when it is
completely normal.

Making the standards available is what the Zeus book does very well.

It's cheap, it's robust, and it's concise enough that you can find
what you are needing easily, even before you have a good working
knowledge of the subject, and learn your way around it fast.

Sure, it's not complete - but it contains the data you are going to be
needing for probably 99.9% of workshop tasks, which is also enough to
tell you that if what you are doing isn't in there, it is unusual, and
you probably need a good reason to be doing it.

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. There are thousands of
sources of basic information on standard threaded fasteners. Starrett
probably still gives away plastic cards with tap drill sizes, etc. I've
got several spiral bound notebooks, shirt pocket size, from Morse
Cutting Tools that cover lots of different data for machinists.

The value of the Machinery's Handbook is that it has damned near every
bit of information a machinist would likely need, all in one place. As
an example, you may be able to find the detailed dimensions of a
standard light bulb thread on the intenet; but I could probably find it
faster in the Machinery's Handbook.

So for basic stuff, you might just look in the concise sources, or
online. If you do enough work that's a bit unusual, the Machinery's
Handbook is very handy. Another "horses for courses" thing.



And one more featu Not cheap.
Stays in one place and is never loaned.

Been a help and good value to me since my (ouch) purchase 40
years ago.

Anecdote: Our bookkeeper walked into my office once as I was
intently turning its ultrathin page and asked if I was
reading a Bible.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:
Frank considered Sun, 11 Sep
2011 19:46:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

AMuzi wrote:
John B. wrote:


Out of curiosity, how much does a current copy cost? I ask because
the
Machinery's Handbook, the machinist's bible here in the U.S., is
round
about $100 a copy; on sale.


Or not:
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ke....y=0&hs=Submit



They've apparently got at least one on special, for $1263.13!

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.de...qsort=r&page=9


I assume that's a typo.

My solution, back in the day, was to get a job as a Mechanical Engineer
and tell my boss that I needed one, and a Mark's Handbook as well.

This indicates a general problem with standards, that they aren't good
standards if they are hidden away in expensive tomes that few
practitioners can afford.
Nobody can work to a standard if they don't have the data on what it
is, far less if they don't even know it exists.

To be a useful standard, something has to be generally available to
those who will (or should) be working to it, and free the design
engineer from having to specify every tiny detail even when it is
completely normal.

Making the standards available is what the Zeus book does very well.

It's cheap, it's robust, and it's concise enough that you can find
what you are needing easily, even before you have a good working
knowledge of the subject, and learn your way around it fast.

Sure, it's not complete - but it contains the data you are going to be
needing for probably 99.9% of workshop tasks, which is also enough to
tell you that if what you are doing isn't in there, it is unusual, and
you probably need a good reason to be doing it.

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. There are thousands of
sources of basic information on standard threaded fasteners. Starrett
probably still gives away plastic cards with tap drill sizes, etc.
I've got several spiral bound notebooks, shirt pocket size, from Morse
Cutting Tools that cover lots of different data for machinists.

The value of the Machinery's Handbook is that it has damned near every
bit of information a machinist would likely need, all in one place. As
an example, you may be able to find the detailed dimensions of a
standard light bulb thread on the intenet; but I could probably find
it faster in the Machinery's Handbook.

So for basic stuff, you might just look in the concise sources, or
online. If you do enough work that's a bit unusual, the Machinery's
Handbook is very handy. Another "horses for courses" thing.



And one more featu Not cheap.
Stays in one place and is never loaned.

Been a help and good value to me since my (ouch) purchase 40 years ago.

Anecdote: Our bookkeeper walked into my office once as I was intently
turning its ultrathin page and asked if I was reading a Bible.

Of course, the correct answer is "Yes." ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, September 8, 2011 at 2:26:57 PM UTC-7, gary wrote:
john wrote:

You need some more information here. Normally a M4 bolt can have one
of two thread pitches, either .70 mm or .35 mm so the specification
really needs to be something like M4 - .7 or M4 - .35.

sorry, don't know what the pitch is. the mechanical engineers and the
guy in the model shop looked at the screw in the good shifter and basically
said that it was metric and 4mm. they never mentioned the pitch nor did
i ask. however, if someone runs into this problem with the ultegra 6500
they at least have a starting point that it is an M4. :-) :-)

This is fine and course threads and in the levers they're all fine threads.

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 3:28:19 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, September 8, 2011 at 2:26:57 PM UTC-7, gary wrote:
john wrote:

You need some more information here. Normally a M4 bolt can have one
of two thread pitches, either .70 mm or .35 mm so the specification
really needs to be something like M4 - .7 or M4 - .35.

sorry, don't know what the pitch is. the mechanical engineers and the
guy in the model shop looked at the screw in the good shifter and basically
said that it was metric and 4mm. they never mentioned the pitch nor did
i ask. however, if someone runs into this problem with the ultegra 6500
they at least have a starting point that it is an M4. :-) :-)

This is fine and course threads and in the levers they're all fine threads.

coarse, of course