Bottom Bracket Tapers

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 3:41:48 PM UTC-8, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 1:15:37 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
https://propelsteps.files.wordpress....rs-3.jpg?w=585

if the crank n tapir doahn fit tightly, soda can shims cut with scissors laid long on 2 opposing flats greased with red Loctite may hold the unit. Dangling long on he outboard side so as the wrenching on slides more shim inward nt running out of shim near end torque.

clean tapir flats with no rough edges male or female. filum edges.

clean threads nut n shaft lubed with red locktite.

Torque is TIGHT with a 6-8" handle. TIGHT. SQWEEK

RETIGHTEN TIL IT BREAKS

breaking the mechanism is difficult.....stay with the 8" handle

the flaw is not tightening it caws yawl believe it will break but it doahn. that's tough metal meant for morons.

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) is used by Shimano and all Asian cranksets. ISO is used by Campagnolo and maybe that is all. As Andy mentioned, JIS is smaller so it goes too far onto a Campagnolo crank.


Not quite all Asian cranks. Classic taper section on Dura
Ace square taper & Sugino 75.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Are you saying some or all Dura Ace square taper cranks were ISO/Campagnolo instead of JIS? If only a few of the really old Dura Ace were ISO, how far back was this? Are the newer, 1980s-1990s, square taper Dura Ace JIS? I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks and I am sure they have Shimano, not Dura Ace, bottom brackets. Sugino 75 was a track crank with 144mm bcd.. So it following Campagnolo ISO is no surprise.

On 12/22/2016 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) is used by Shimano and all Asian cranksets. ISO is used by Campagnolo and maybe that is all. As Andy mentioned, JIS is smaller so it goes too far onto a Campagnolo crank.


Not quite all Asian cranks. Classic taper section on Dura
Ace square taper & Sugino 75.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Are you saying some or all Dura Ace square taper cranks were ISO/Campagnolo instead of JIS? If only a few of the really old Dura Ace were ISO, how far back was this? Are the newer, 1980s-1990s, square taper Dura Ace JIS? I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks and I am sure they have Shimano, not Dura Ace, bottom brackets. Sugino 75 was a track crank with 144mm bcd. So it following Campagnolo ISO is no surprise.


Yes and the popular Dura Ace square taper Keirin cranks
(which have since gone revisionist spline)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, December 23, 2016 at 5:48:30 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) is used by Shimano and all Asian cranksets. ISO is used by Campagnolo and maybe that is all. As Andy mentioned, JIS is smaller so it goes too far onto a Campagnolo crank.


Not quite all Asian cranks. Classic taper section on Dura
Ace square taper & Sugino 75.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Are you saying some or all Dura Ace square taper cranks were ISO/Campagnolo instead of JIS? If only a few of the really old Dura Ace were ISO, how far back was this? Are the newer, 1980s-1990s, square taper Dura Ace JIS? I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks and I am sure they have Shimano, not Dura Ace, bottom brackets. Sugino 75 was a track crank with 144mm bcd. So it following Campagnolo ISO is no surprise.


Yes and the popular Dura Ace square taper Keirin cranks
(which have since gone revisionist spline)

I was worried about the weight of a square taper Campy crank and bottom bracket. It turns out that if you go to the latest super expensive Record as compared to an older Athena there's only 6 ounces of weight difference. So if you are building a bike solely to get the lightest possible I would go to the latest but otherwise I simply wouldn't bother.

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 6:28:26 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) is used by Shimano and all Asian cranksets. ISO is used by Campagnolo and maybe that is all. As Andy mentioned, JIS is smaller so it goes too far onto a Campagnolo crank.


Not quite all Asian cranks. Classic taper section on Dura
Ace square taper & Sugino 75.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Are you saying some or all Dura Ace square taper cranks were ISO/Campagnolo instead of JIS? If only a few of the really old Dura Ace were ISO, how far back was this? Are the newer, 1980s-1990s, square taper Dura Ace JIS? I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks and I am sure they have Shimano, not Dura Ace, bottom brackets. Sugino 75 was a track crank with 144mm bcd. So it following Campagnolo ISO is no surprise.

I know that the first generation Dura Ace were ISO/Campagnolo compatible. http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...5-6d6d67c62e41 I think the AX/EX went with the short JIS tapers. Sir and Andrew could probably confirm the dates. I used a standard Phil #2 BB with ISO asymmetrical axle for a post-AX 1984 Dura Ace as well. You can mix and match and certainly get by with a modern JIS axle, although the chain line might be off. You also have the problem with all the new cartridge BBs being symmetrical.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/23/2016 10:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 6:28:26 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:38 PM, wrote:
JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) is used by Shimano and all Asian cranksets. ISO is used by Campagnolo and maybe that is all. As Andy mentioned, JIS is smaller so it goes too far onto a Campagnolo crank.


Not quite all Asian cranks. Classic taper section on Dura
Ace square taper & Sugino 75.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Are you saying some or all Dura Ace square taper cranks were ISO/Campagnolo instead of JIS? If only a few of the really old Dura Ace were ISO, how far back was this? Are the newer, 1980s-1990s, square taper Dura Ace JIS? I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks and I am sure they have Shimano, not Dura Ace, bottom brackets. Sugino 75 was a track crank with 144mm bcd. So it following Campagnolo ISO is no surprise.

I know that the first generation Dura Ace were ISO/Campagnolo compatible. http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...5-6d6d67c62e41 I think the AX/EX went with the short JIS tapers. Sir and Andrew could probably confirm the dates. I used a standard Phil #2 BB with ISO asymmetrical axle for a post-AX 1984 Dura Ace as well. You can mix and match and certainly get by with a modern JIS axle, although the chain line might be off. You also have the problem with all the new cartridge BBs being symmetrical.

-- Jay Beattie.


Right, DA EX and AX are classic taper as are New Dura Ace.
(600, New 600 and Ultegra on down take small-section
spindles) The old Phil #2[1] is asymmetric, same format as
the classic Campagnolo 1046a which is also New Dura Ace road
and dozens of other (GPM, Zeus, Sugino Mity, Favorit, etc)
premium crank systems. Right again, the small-section
spindles not engage these cranks well and chainline is your
smallest problem. You're also right that modern cranks are
nearly all designed for symmetric spindles and the standard
inexpensive cartridge BB units are not offered in offset design.

[1] Phil Wood current product is called 116+5. Same thing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 22/12/16 16:26, wrote:
I looked over on Sheldon's website but couldn't discover the difference in tapers of Shimano and Campy bottom brackets. It always bothered me that they weren't compatible (sort of like Duane and the truth).

Does anyone know what these tapers are?

Sheldon (mhrip) had a lot to say on that.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html