How to clean Shimano derailleurs?

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.


And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

--
JS

On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.


And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

AMuzi wrote:

Yeah the not flammable feature was nice. But chlorinated
solvents are hell on edged tools, especially hot cutters wet
with cutting oil; a spray of trichlor turns them deep brown
in an instant.

One of my former employees brought in a pair of Ford V8
heads, worked away at cleaning them with our brake cleaner
until he couldn't move a stud and then lit a torch. Trouble
is, the workbench, his shoes and several shop cloths were
soaked in alcohol already...

Ouch. Was that on March 30th, 1971?

https://hideki-tojo.weebly.com/uploads/4/5/3/2/45321703/718228_orig.jpg

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.


And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new.

On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 16:34:12 +1100, James
wrote:

On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:


Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
check is at 10,000 km.


And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

Yes.

A year or so we had to replace the lower suspension "arm" on my wife's
Honda. It is essentiality a curved sheet of metal with three bearings
pressed in. I asked the Honda shop why new bearings couldn't be
pressed in and they told me that "no, can't do that you need to change
the entire unit". I later looked at the Honda parts book and it
appeared that Honda does not stock or sell the individual bearings.

I'm not especially complaining as when I was in the A.F. they did a
study on aircraft parts and found original parts outperformed rebuilt
parts by, in come cases, very substantial margins.

But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between
"Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a
new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 10:48:36 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Snipped
But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between
"Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a
new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Especially if the bicycle shop is not as large or as fully equipped as Andrew's shop is.

Cheers

On 02/01/2019 10:51 a.m., Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 10:48:36 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/2/2019 10:38 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019 at 1:24:28 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
Snipped
But it does say something about modern practice - "don't fix it, just
buy a new one" and of course, in a generation, or so, it will be the
norm.

On the other hand, about 40 years ago I took a 1/4, maybe 1/2 H.P
electric motor to "the motor shop" and was told that it would be
cheaper to buy a new one rather then repair the old one. So, given
wage levels in most developed countries perhaps "throw it away" is the
most economic solution.

cheers,

John B.

That seems to be the way with a lot of bicycle components too = don't try to fix just buy a new one because we/ or manufacturers don't stock the parts or because it's cheaper to buy it new.

It would be interesting if Andrew would tell us his threshold between
"Sure, we can replace those spokes" and "You might as well just buy a
new wheel." How many bad spokes does it take?

With cheap machine-built wheels, that number must be lower every year.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Especially if the bicycle shop is not as large or as fully equipped as Andrew's shop is.

Cheers


It would have to be a pretty cheap wheel.

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 at 5:15:13 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2019 6:19 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 10:05:52 +1100, James
wrote:

On 31/12/18 7:08 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

You can buy, although I never have, jockey wheels with some sort of
magic bearings that you just know will make you countless miles an
hour faster :-) And of course the price is what one would want to pay
for something that increased one's speed so dramatically :-)

Campagnolo jockey wheels on my bike have what appears to be a soft
(bronze) metal outer bearing material that runs on a harder steel
sleeve. To make sure I was getting a good dose of grease in to the
bearing assembly, I drilled a hole from the outside of the jockey wheel,
all the way through the soft metal outer bearing material. Now I can
use a grease gun syringe to pump grease in until it squeezes out the
side plates. It has resulted in much less frequent maintenance and
lubrication of those parts.


Egad! Here are people complaining about the time spent on lubeing
their chain and there you are creeping around on your hands and knees
with a needle :-)


But, in a more serious vein, do get longer life with the greased
bearings?

I know that you ride a significant number of miles (kilometers)
annually so if anyone is going to wear out jockey wheels it will
likely be you. Does greasing help? If so I wonder could one get, or
make, jockey wheels with sealed ball bearings?


Sure. They're cheap and common. More than generic Shimano
style rollers but less than actual Campagnolo bronze sleeve
rollers; $20/pair.

Expensive versions exist but I have no experience with them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Those idler pulley's that seem to be so comical to the group here have real roller bearings in them. They take FAR less energy to turn and hence they do not drag and wear themselves out on the chain rotation or pick up goop so thick that it requires total disassembly and soaking in paint thinner.

The largest number of people here complaining about improvements to the mechanism of a bicycle are those who do not use them for sport but rather for cheap transportation.

James wrote:
:On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

:
: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
: technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
: course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
: check is at 10,000 km.
:

:And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

At intervals that mean the cost per mile is still much lower than it
used to be.

--
sig 124

On 1/2/2019 12:30 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
James wrote:
:On 2/1/19 3:42 pm, John B. Slocomb wrote:

:
: Way back when... cars had grease fittings all over them the standard
: technique was to squirt grease in until clean grease came out. Now of
: course nothing gets greased. We just bought a new car... the first
: check is at 10,000 km.
:

:And instead of replacing a ball joint, now you replace an entire arm.

At intervals that mean the cost per mile is still much lower than it
used to be.

It's certainly true that cars are much, much more reliable than they
used to be. Their price tags are much higher (even in constant dollars)
so I'm not sure how the cost-per-mile has changed, but I appreciate not
having to do so much routine maintenance work.

Our four-year-old car tells me to change its oil only once in 15,000
miles (a result of synthetic oil plus mostly highway driving). The most
frequent maintenance task is rotating tires every 5000 miles. The only
real glitch has been brake pad wear due to the pads sticking in their
tracks - something I _think_ I fixed last week.

My days of tinkering with the car every other weekend have ended, and
I'm glad.

--
- Frank Krygowski