My CF Adventure

no. we red several long running discussions on CF breakage and there were few but catastrophic. Small composite shops quality control standards are variable: 'do we use he last of jUg @ $175 QT when gee whiz looks kinda tacky'?



when first Defense reductions happened twas a boom in CF shops/canoe/kayak/hangglider shops...maybe daze filtered out...



Duze Easton use the last of Jug A...small chance maybe but unlikely.



I guess if you go to MTB long distnace races ?
((((((()))))))

we assume riders using CF forks are paranoid n insoect for surface cracks then bitch for replacement or refunds...that data isnot available unless the buyer/victim/happy customer squeals.

On Mar 15, 5:06*am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 03/13/2013 03:26 PM, SMS wrote:









On 3/13/2013 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Monday, March 11, 2013 1:09:19 PM UTC-7, Jay Beattie wrote:

I might invest in a nice, stiff CF frame, but its not like I have to.
-- Jay Beattie.

As SMS pointed out there are a lot of CF frames breaking. Normally not
in a catastrophic manner but require replacement. Since models are
changing so rapidly, too often the old components don't properly fit
the newer frames and that is NOT covered by the warranty. And the
wheels they're selling on these bikes today with 12 aero spokes are
breaking around the spoke holes from the flexing from big guys.

There is a spectacular new material coming out more often these days
called "steel". It is stiff yet compliant. Properly constructed it is
only slightly heavier that Tour de France bikes. It has very nice
appearance when built with older construction methods. What's more,
since I had a near death injury from a CF fork failure you can pretty
much drop any worry about such things occurring to you. Of course
there is a weight disadvantage. For me that's a hugely disadvantageous
2%. If I were racing no doubt I would be slaughtered. Oh, wait, I was
already being slaughtered when I owned the lightest bikes in the
world. I guess I needed to train more than the 10,000 miles a year I
was doing.

A new CF bicycle with a lifetime warranty on the frame is fine as long
as the purchaser realizes that it's not a question of _if_ the CF frame
breaks, but _when_. And as you point out, it's only the frame with a
lifetime warranty.

CF forks on steel or aluminum bicycles are what is difficult to
understand given the very large number of CF fork failures. It's too
easy to damage a CF fork and of course there are also manufacturer
defects. CF is trendy though.

Do you have any evidence that there are an inordinate amount of forks
failing when they are made of CF? *I remember hearing the same thing
about aluminum forks a few years ago. *Where are all the bodies being
hidden?

See http://cs.cpsc.gov/ConceptDemo/Searc...+fibe r+forks
Carbon fiber forks -- like aluminum and steel forks -- are capable of
being poorly designed or manufactured. Use the CPSC search page to
look for aluminum suspension forks -- or gawd forbid, steel forks.
You will find a number of recalls for steel forks.

It is also true that CF forks may fail catastrophically in wall
impacts. The aftermath is very dramatic -- shattered fork blades,
etc., but the failure is irrelevant to the rider -- who is launched
anyway, regardless of what happened to his or her forks. Steel forks
would be bent, and both types would require replacement.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mar 15, 8:36*am, datakoll wrote:
Small composite shops quality control standards are variable: 'do we use he last of jUg @ $175 QT when gee whiz looks kinda tacky'?

Unfortunately, that can be true of small steel brazing shops as well.
Jim Bradford (of Georgia, USA in 1979) apparently said "Do I order a
new set of tandem fork blades for this guy's tandem I'm building?
Naw, I'll just slap these track-gauge fork blades in there."

Until they broke, there was no way for me to know they had only 1/3
the wall thickness they were supposed to have.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mar 15, 12:02*pm, SMS wrote:
On 3/15/2013 5:06 AM, Duane H bert wrote:

Do you have any evidence that there are an inordinate amount of forks
failing when they are made of CF? *I remember hearing the same thing
about aluminum forks a few years ago. *Where are all the bodies being
hidden?

It depends on how you define inordinate.

The big issue with carbon fiber, and it applies to both forks and
frames, is that they are more likely to break without warning, even when
there is no impact that would normally be needed to break a steel or
aluminum fork.

I'm not a big fan of carbon fiber. But I must note, my tandem's steel
forks broke without impact, unless you count the rough patch of road
we hit (not a pothole, just a very rough surface).

And as for warning, I got roughly 50 feet of "What's that little
noise?" That was the front fender lightly scraping the tire, which it
had done before, since Jim Bradford also did not build in the amount
of fender clearance I'd requested.

(Don't buy a bike from a custom frame builder who's getting ready to
leave the country on his honeymoon.)

- Frank Krygowski

On 03/15/2013 10:35 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 15, 5:06 am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 03/13/2013 03:26 PM, SMS wrote:









On 3/13/2013 10:30 AM, wrote:
On Monday, March 11, 2013 1:09:19 PM UTC-7, Jay Beattie wrote:

I might invest in a nice, stiff CF frame, but its not like I have to.
-- Jay Beattie.

As SMS pointed out there are a lot of CF frames breaking. Normally not
in a catastrophic manner but require replacement. Since models are
changing so rapidly, too often the old components don't properly fit
the newer frames and that is NOT covered by the warranty. And the
wheels they're selling on these bikes today with 12 aero spokes are
breaking around the spoke holes from the flexing from big guys.

There is a spectacular new material coming out more often these days
called "steel". It is stiff yet compliant. Properly constructed it is
only slightly heavier that Tour de France bikes. It has very nice
appearance when built with older construction methods. What's more,
since I had a near death injury from a CF fork failure you can pretty
much drop any worry about such things occurring to you. Of course
there is a weight disadvantage. For me that's a hugely disadvantageous
2%. If I were racing no doubt I would be slaughtered. Oh, wait, I was
already being slaughtered when I owned the lightest bikes in the
world. I guess I needed to train more than the 10,000 miles a year I
was doing.

A new CF bicycle with a lifetime warranty on the frame is fine as long
as the purchaser realizes that it's not a question of _if_ the CF frame
breaks, but _when_. And as you point out, it's only the frame with a
lifetime warranty.

CF forks on steel or aluminum bicycles are what is difficult to
understand given the very large number of CF fork failures. It's too
easy to damage a CF fork and of course there are also manufacturer
defects. CF is trendy though.

Do you have any evidence that there are an inordinate amount of forks
failing when they are made of CF? I remember hearing the same thing
about aluminum forks a few years ago. Where are all the bodies being
hidden?

See http://cs.cpsc.gov/ConceptDemo/Searc...+fibe r+forks
Carbon fiber forks -- like aluminum and steel forks -- are capable of
being poorly designed or manufactured. Use the CPSC search page to
look for aluminum suspension forks -- or gawd forbid, steel forks.
You will find a number of recalls for steel forks.

It is also true that CF forks may fail catastrophically in wall
impacts. The aftermath is very dramatic -- shattered fork blades,
etc., but the failure is irrelevant to the rider -- who is launched
anyway, regardless of what happened to his or her forks. Steel forks
would be bent, and both types would require replacement.


Yeah, but that comes under the "**** happens" header. I'm wondering
where the "**** happens extremely more often with CF" header comes from.
Though I fully expect my CF frame to disintegrate on my next ride now
that I'm asking.

On Friday, March 15, 2013 8:06:22 AM UTC-4, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 03/13/2013 03:26 PM, SMS wrote:

On 3/13/2013 10:30 AM, wrote:

On Monday, March 11, 2013 1:09:19 PM UTC-7, Jay Beattie wrote:



I might invest in a nice, stiff CF frame, but its not like I have to.

-- Jay Beattie.



As SMS pointed out there are a lot of CF frames breaking. Normally not

in a catastrophic manner but require replacement. Since models are

changing so rapidly, too often the old components don't properly fit

the newer frames and that is NOT covered by the warranty. And the

wheels they're selling on these bikes today with 12 aero spokes are

breaking around the spoke holes from the flexing from big guys.



There is a spectacular new material coming out more often these days

called "steel". It is stiff yet compliant. Properly constructed it is

only slightly heavier that Tour de France bikes. It has very nice

appearance when built with older construction methods. What's more,

since I had a near death injury from a CF fork failure you can pretty

much drop any worry about such things occurring to you. Of course

there is a weight disadvantage. For me that's a hugely disadvantageous

2%. If I were racing no doubt I would be slaughtered. Oh, wait, I was

already being slaughtered when I owned the lightest bikes in the

world. I guess I needed to train more than the 10,000 miles a year I

was doing.



A new CF bicycle with a lifetime warranty on the frame is fine as long

as the purchaser realizes that it's not a question of _if_ the CF frame

breaks, but _when_. And as you point out, it's only the frame with a

lifetime warranty.



CF forks on steel or aluminum bicycles are what is difficult to

understand given the very large number of CF fork failures. It's too

easy to damage a CF fork and of course there are also manufacturer

defects. CF is trendy though.





Do you have any evidence that there are an inordinate amount of forks

failing when they are made of CF? I remember hearing the same thing

about aluminum forks a few years ago. Where are all the bodies being

hidden?

SMS doesn't believe in evidence to support his claims.

On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:09:19 PM UTC, Jay Beattie wrote:
So, my friend is trying to sell his Specialized Roubaix, and he set me

up on the bike for a ride last Saturday. Not withstanding my status as

former Cat 3 and Masters pack-filler and renowned commuter, I had

never ridden a CF bike more than a few hundred yards. This was going

to be something new and exciting for me.

I enjoyed this piece. Thanks, Jay. It took me back to the days when RBT was a fount of esoteric information and experience that could save you a lot of money. Though I'm normally a sucker for the new once it filters down a bit, as carbon has, after reading what you say, I don't think I'll be buying a carbon bike.

Andre Jute

ACID DIP BY NASCAR FABS

?

On Friday, March 15, 2013 6:48:35 PM UTC-4, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, March 11, 2013 8:09:19 PM UTC, Jay Beattie wrote:

So, my friend is trying to sell his Specialized Roubaix, and he set me



up on the bike for a ride last Saturday. Not withstanding my status as



former Cat 3 and Masters pack-filler and renowned commuter, I had



never ridden a CF bike more than a few hundred yards. This was going



to be something new and exciting for me.



I enjoyed this piece. Thanks, Jay. It took me back to the days when RBT was a fount of esoteric information and experience that could save you a lot of money. Though I'm normally a sucker for the new once it filters down a bit, as carbon has, after reading what you say, I don't think I'll be buying a carbon bike.



Andre Jute

NNNNN

A ROUBAIX IS MADE FOR A HEART PATIENT