Radial spokes?

On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 2:36:37 AM UTC-8, Peter Howard wrote:
I got quite a nice $2 26" wheel from the tip salvage shop. Shimano HB
M-564 hub, 36 x DT 2mm straight gauge spokes laced to Sun Rims Rhyno Lite.
It even ran true to begin with though I believe it to be quite old as
that Shimano hub is a 1990's one that's labelled Parallax as they were
back then. The nice wide rim (22mm between bead seats) is not unduly
worn in the brake tracks and exhibits no cracking around the spoke ferrules.
However, the thing is radially spoked. I've never built a front wheel
other than three cross, believing that if I'm going to the trouble and
expense I might as well build it as "strong" as possible. I did some
googling for radial spoking and confirmed my recollection that you can
get away with it on a rim braked front wheel though some hub
manufacturers positively forbid it. My high powered x-ray vision detects
no cracking between hub spoke holes and I conclude that I could use the
wheel as it is on a commuter/grocery-getter bike. The slightly weird
Shimano hub has been cleaned, inspected, regreased and passed fit for
further service.
Can anyone who has built wheels tell me why anyone would want to
radially spoke a 26" MTB wheel using quite decent components when it's
just as easy to do two or three cross?
PH

A hub Engineered to use a radial spoking . http://www.nabendynamo.de/produkte/son_xs_neu.html

And provide power for your addictive phone user's Battery trickle charging
with the addition of an AC to USB DC conversion devise..

James wrote:
On 02/03/15 02:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/1/2015 6:49 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
...
I took them home in the box. When I unpacked them I found that they
are a nice set of Shimano wheels with 20 radial in front and 24 cross
2 in the back. The spokes are. I guess you'd call them aerodynamic,
slightly flattened and perhaps started as 2.5 mm wire.

When I was toying around with aerodynamic tricks on my bikes (nothing
radical, mind you), I re-spoked a front wheel with oval spokes,
replacing straight 14 gage. I made no other changes except the spokes.

Before disassembly, with the tire and tube removed, I did some
coast-down spins of the bare wheel, timing how long it took to stop. (I
forget now how I got it up to a consistent starting speed. I may have
used an electric drill with a rubber drive wheel, i.e. a rubber sanding
drum without the sandpaper cylinder.)

Anyway, I remember doing about ten trials with the straight gage spokes
and repeating with the oval spokes. To my surprise, the wheel stopped a
bit more quickly with the oval spokes.

The oval spokes were very slightly lighter (maybe 20 grams?), so the
wheel had less moment of inertia. That would lead to faster
deceleration. But I really expected the reduction in aero drag to
produce a bigger effect. I was disappointed.

Needless to say, I could never _feel_ any aero benefit from the spokes,
nor from any of the other minor aero tricks I tried.

I usually did outcoast my friends, and some of those side-by-side
coasting trials convinced me there was some aero value, especially with
the old Tailwind panniers. But as usual, the benefits didn't really
change the feel of the ride, my commuting time riding home from work, or
my enjoyment of just riding the bike.


At 30 mph, the power used to turn a wheel in a wind tunnel decreases by
more than 10W going from round to CXray spokes.

http://www.echelonsports.com.au/down...poke-shape.pdf

Note also the claim that low spoke count has measurable effect.


When I was building the wheel for my dynamo hub, I seriously considered
using oval spokes, thinking that the reduced aero losses might compensate
for the hub drag. In the end, I decided against it, but it looked to be
nearly possible.

On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 2:36:37 AM UTC-8, Peter Howard wrote:
I got quite a nice $2 26" wheel from the tip salvage shop. Shimano HB
M-564 hub, 36 x DT 2mm straight gauge spokes laced to Sun Rims Rhyno Lite.
It even ran true to begin with though I believe it to be quite old as
that Shimano hub is a 1990's one that's labelled Parallax as they were
back then. The nice wide rim (22mm between bead seats) is not unduly
worn in the brake tracks and exhibits no cracking around the spoke ferrules.
However, the thing is radially spoked. I've never built a front wheel
other than three cross, believing that if I'm going to the trouble and
expense I might as well build it as "strong" as possible. I did some
googling for radial spoking and confirmed my recollection that you can
get away with it on a rim braked front wheel though some hub
manufacturers positively forbid it. My high powered x-ray vision detects
no cracking between hub spoke holes and I conclude that I could use the
wheel as it is on a commuter/grocery-getter bike. The slightly weird
Shimano hub has been cleaned, inspected, regreased and passed fit for
further service.
Can anyone who has built wheels tell me why anyone would want to
radially spoke a 26" MTB wheel using quite decent components when it's
just as easy to do two or three cross?
PH

Well bladed spokes require a slotted hub hole opening ..

though a bladed spoke can also be double threaded.

with 1 end threaded into the hub Machined for the purpose Obviously.

then The nipple threads on the outside as usual ..

The Blade can be held to keep it from rotating while you screw down the Nip.