A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"torque wrench" pump/compressor



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old October 12th 18, 07:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque
wrench" pump or compressor? I.e., you would
screw on the presta valve, set the gizmo to
e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level
it would stop?


Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can set for
your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is inflated
to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the rest of the
world had them too.


My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired temperature.

- Frank Krygowski


When I was talking about the gas station automatic tie filler I wasn't
thinking about bicycles. In fact I can't remember ever filling a
bicycle tire at a gas station, just pump them up at home and ride :-)
But you are right, in a bicycle tire a small volume pumped in raises
the pressure substantially.
--

Cheers,

John B.
Ads
  #22  
Old October 12th 18, 07:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 17:53:05 +0000 (UTC), Theodore Heise
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.


My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.


Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?


More likely pounds per square inch, i.e. psi :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #23  
Old October 12th 18, 07:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 19:03:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 3:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/11/2018 12:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
** Frank Krygowski wrote:
* On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
** inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
** bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

* My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
* things, although I suppose they may be different now.

* Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
* problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
* car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
* absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
* tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

* I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
* easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
* temperature.

Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?


funny. Pressure is mass/area usually. Except on RBT.


No, sorry, it's FORCE per unit area.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/pressure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure

Mass vs. weight vs. other forces is a big item of confusion for physics
and engineering students. Teachers work hard to correct the confusion.


But if you compress air it gets hotter so temperature should be taken
into consideration :-)

--

Cheers,

John B.
  #24  
Old October 12th 18, 07:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 1:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.


Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?


Oh geez, my mistake!

But: Neither! I stop when it reads the desired PRESSURE!

Around here we use psi = pounds per square inch. Weirdly enough, my
pump's pressure gauge is also graduated in kg/cm^2. I would have used
that as a bad example in my courses, since kg is properly used to
measure mass, not force. And pressure is force per unit area.

(This indicates that the SI system gets misused as much as the U.S. or
Imperial system.)


But isn't "pound" a measurement of mass also :-?
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #25  
Old October 12th 18, 03:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 1:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.

Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?


Oh geez, my mistake!

But: Neither! I stop when it reads the desired PRESSURE!

Around here we use psi = pounds per square inch. Weirdly enough, my
pump's pressure gauge is also graduated in kg/cm^2. I would have used
that as a bad example in my courses, since kg is properly used to
measure mass, not force. And pressure is force per unit area.

(This indicates that the SI system gets misused as much as the U.S. or
Imperial system.)


But isn't "pound" a measurement of mass also :-?


When I was in school, years ago, we were quite strictly made to write
either lb_f (pound force) or lb_m (pound mass), and to include unit
conversions from one to the other using constants g (the nominal force
of graivty at the surface of the Earth) and g_c (a unit conversion factor).

The conversion is:

lb_f = lb_m * g / g_c

In English units g = 32.2 ft/s^2
g_c = 32.2 lb_m ft/s^2 lb_f

but if you didn't include the conversion, you failed.

  #26  
Old October 12th 18, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On 10/12/2018 10:18 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 1:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.

Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?

Oh geez, my mistake!

But: Neither! I stop when it reads the desired PRESSURE!

Around here we use psi = pounds per square inch. Weirdly enough, my
pump's pressure gauge is also graduated in kg/cm^2. I would have used
that as a bad example in my courses, since kg is properly used to
measure mass, not force. And pressure is force per unit area.

(This indicates that the SI system gets misused as much as the U.S. or
Imperial system.)


But isn't "pound" a measurement of mass also :-?


As I used to explain it to students: Properly speaking, a _force_ is a
push or a pull on an object. Properly speaking, _mass_ is a measure of
the amount of matter in an object. _Weight_ is a particular force, i.e.
the force of gravity on an object.

So in a U.S. grocery if you buy 2.2 pounds of cheese, you're buying the
amount of cheese upon which the earth's gravity exerts a force of two
pounds. It's a roundabout way of specifying the mass you want, but it
works as long as you're just talking cheese, etc.

In a European country, you'd specify you wanted a kilogram of cheese,
which is about 2.2 pounds worth. There, you're directly specifying the
amount of cheese you want.

That makes it sound like the Europeans are much smarter. But they turn
things around and sometimes measure forces in kilograms, or pressure in
kg/cm^2 etc.

Where it makes a difference is in calculations involving force, mass and
acceleration. Or other engineering calculations. If you don't clearly
understand whether you're dealing with force or with mass, you get
answers that are very, very wrong.


When I was in school, years ago, we were quite strictly made to write
either lb_f (pound force) or lb_m (pound mass), and to include unit
conversions from one to the other using constants g (the nominal force
of graivty at the surface of the Earth) and g_c (a unit conversion factor).

The conversion is:

lb_f = lb_m * g / g_c

In English units g = 32.2 ft/s^2
g_c = 32.2 lb_m ft/s^2 lb_f

but if you didn't include the conversion, you failed.


Exactly! And students who ignored all that got answers that were wrong
by a factor of 32.2.

As I explained it, g_c ("Gee sub C") is just a conversion factor, in the
same way that (12 in / 1 ft) is a conversion factor. If a person
diligently showed units in their computations, it was obvious when it
was needed.

Most conversion factors have no names, and it always seemed weird to me
that they gave that conversion factor a name. Thousands of students got
endlessly confused between the acceleration of gravity
g, which is 32.2 ft/sec^2
and that conversion factor
g_c, which is 32.2 (lbm*ft)/(lbf*sec^2)

Diligent attention to units on ALL quantities straightens out that
confusion. At least, for most students.

And BTW, I found that engineers typically pay attention to units like
that. To my astonishment, some professors teaching basic physics did not.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #27  
Old October 12th 18, 10:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

John B. Slocomb wrote:

Well, I've mentioned that you might research
your questions before asking them and Frank
has even given you a list of books that might
enlighten you and now Sir has told you flat
out that you do sound like a troll.


You and a bunch of other guys, [insert your
name here] etc, can call me what you want, I'm
unaffected because every day tons of people
express gratefulness for everything I've done
in just a couple of years - with firewood,
carpentry, bikes, organization, gardening, home
improvement, bricklayer, and so on.

However people who ONLY make derogatory remarks
I'll killfile as it doesn't please me to
interact with this kind of person.

And this is my last remark on this topic So
if I don't respond to further replies, that
doesn't mean I agree, it means it don't find
this kind of discussion pleasant/productive

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #28  
Old October 12th 18, 10:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

AMuzi wrote:

As a 10th grade dropout, I understand the
limits of an autodidact education.


When was the last time you were wrong about
a bike issue?

I mean a principle matter, not grabbing the 9mm
combination spanner instead of the 10.

PS. Serious question! DS.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #29  
Old October 12th 18, 11:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 10:18:06 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 1:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.

Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?

Oh geez, my mistake!

But: Neither! I stop when it reads the desired PRESSURE!

Around here we use psi = pounds per square inch. Weirdly enough, my
pump's pressure gauge is also graduated in kg/cm^2. I would have used
that as a bad example in my courses, since kg is properly used to
measure mass, not force. And pressure is force per unit area.

(This indicates that the SI system gets misused as much as the U.S. or
Imperial system.)


But isn't "pound" a measurement of mass also :-?


When I was in school, years ago, we were quite strictly made to write
either lb_f (pound force) or lb_m (pound mass), and to include unit
conversions from one to the other using constants g (the nominal force
of graivty at the surface of the Earth) and g_c (a unit conversion factor).

The conversion is:

lb_f = lb_m * g / g_c

In English units g = 32.2 ft/s^2
g_c = 32.2 lb_m ft/s^2 lb_f

but if you didn't include the conversion, you failed.


Question. "Lb_m * g". how can you meaure 1 lb_m without gravety?
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #30  
Old October 13th 18, 12:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default "torque wrench" pump/compressor

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:08:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/12/2018 10:18 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. Slocomb writes:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:04 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 1:53 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT),
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 5:00:33 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:54:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Just out of curiosity, is there a "torque wrench" pump or
compressor? I.e., you would screw on the presta valve, set
the gizmo to e.g. 35psi, engage it, and instead of watching
the indicator, automagically at the right level it would
stop?

Most of the gas stations here use an air station that you can
set for your desired pressure and then just plug the hose onto
the tire valve
- there is a little clamp to hold it there. When the tire is
inflated to the specified pressure the inflation stops and a
bell rings.

Since they aren't manufactured here I had assumed that the
rest of the world had them too.

My experience from 50+ years ago says not to rely on those
things, although I suppose they may be different now.

Back then I blew a tire off the rim with one. I suspect the
problem was the volume of each pumping stroke. In a large sized
car tire, the volume surge with each big stroke would be
absorbed and barely raise the pressure. In a low volume bike
tire, it caused an explosion. That's my guess anyway.

I usually inflate using a manual floor pump with a gage. It's
easy enough to stop pumping when the dial reads the desired
temperature.

Don't you mean, when the dial reads the desired foot-pounds?

Oh geez, my mistake!

But: Neither! I stop when it reads the desired PRESSURE!

Around here we use psi = pounds per square inch. Weirdly enough, my
pump's pressure gauge is also graduated in kg/cm^2. I would have used
that as a bad example in my courses, since kg is properly used to
measure mass, not force. And pressure is force per unit area.

(This indicates that the SI system gets misused as much as the U.S. or
Imperial system.)

But isn't "pound" a measurement of mass also :-?


As I used to explain it to students: Properly speaking, a _force_ is a
push or a pull on an object. Properly speaking, _mass_ is a measure of
the amount of matter in an object. _Weight_ is a particular force, i.e.
the force of gravity on an object.

So in a U.S. grocery if you buy 2.2 pounds of cheese, you're buying the
amount of cheese upon which the earth's gravity exerts a force of two
pounds. It's a roundabout way of specifying the mass you want, but it
works as long as you're just talking cheese, etc.

In a European country, you'd specify you wanted a kilogram of cheese,
which is about 2.2 pounds worth. There, you're directly specifying the
amount of cheese you want.

I think I must have been out of school for too long. How is 1 kilogram
which equates to approximately2.20462262185 pounds a different
measurement than pounds? Aren't they both a measurement of the effect
of gravity on a certain amount of stuff?


That makes it sound like the Europeans are much smarter. But they turn
things around and sometimes measure forces in kilograms, or pressure in
kg/cm^2 etc.

Where it makes a difference is in calculations involving force, mass and
acceleration. Or other engineering calculations. If you don't clearly
understand whether you're dealing with force or with mass, you get
answers that are very, very wrong.


When I was in school, years ago, we were quite strictly made to write
either lb_f (pound force) or lb_m (pound mass), and to include unit
conversions from one to the other using constants g (the nominal force
of graivty at the surface of the Earth) and g_c (a unit conversion factor).

The conversion is:

lb_f = lb_m * g / g_c

In English units g = 32.2 ft/s^2
g_c = 32.2 lb_m ft/s^2 lb_f

but if you didn't include the conversion, you failed.


Exactly! And students who ignored all that got answers that were wrong
by a factor of 32.2.

As I explained it, g_c ("Gee sub C") is just a conversion factor, in the
same way that (12 in / 1 ft) is a conversion factor. If a person
diligently showed units in their computations, it was obvious when it
was needed.

Most conversion factors have no names, and it always seemed weird to me
that they gave that conversion factor a name. Thousands of students got
endlessly confused between the acceleration of gravity
g, which is 32.2 ft/sec^2
and that conversion factor
g_c, which is 32.2 (lbm*ft)/(lbf*sec^2)

Diligent attention to units on ALL quantities straightens out that
confusion. At least, for most students.

And BTW, I found that engineers typically pay attention to units like
that. To my astonishment, some professors teaching basic physics did not.

--

Cheers,

John B.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
loosen nut before torque wrench torque? Emanuel Berg[_2_] Techniques 0 July 17th 18 08:36 AM
winged dome nut (photo) and "master wrench" Emanuel Berg Techniques 24 July 2nd 16 03:15 AM
which torque wrench? Steve Watkin UK 69 September 1st 06 04:54 PM
looking for a "wrench force" supplier? Bleve Australia 8 September 6th 05 03:24 AM
Torque wrench cc Mountain Biking 10 February 25th 05 05:01 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.