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cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 7th 17, 06:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

nil wrote:

jbeattie wrote:

lock ring a good yank. With the serrations
Where are those, one the spacers
mentioned earlier?


I advise you not to listen to anyone else on
this subject except Al Muzi.


During the Russian revolution civil war the
Reds didn't have any visible rank system to
tell their soldiers apart. Still, everyone knew
who was the boss. A good system, I'd say...

Otherwise tighten firm and not real tight.
I think that the "crash" you're talking about
is the serrations/semi-ratchet teeth on the
inside of the lock ring. These are to keep
the lock ring from backing off if it isn't
tight enough.


So, the lock ring bolt has serrations on the
inside that has a semi-ratcheting property...
but contrary to a real ratchet which goes
"chirr chirr chirr" this goes "crash crash
crash" with proportionally the more power in
between and larger chunks of movement?

Man, I have a bucket of worn out cassettes.
Perhaps picking one apart is educational...

The cassette should NOT rattle. If it does
there is an incorrect spacer.


I don't know if "rattle" is the sound.
When fiddling with the cassette some two or
three (?) sprockets were moving along, possibly
making some sound, actually I don't remember,
but if they did it wasn't very loud or alarming
in character. The sprockets were not spinning
but the amount of force to make them move was
minimal. They seemed to be moving in small
chunks. The cassette was brand new as said.
When I put it on and pulled with the ratchet
and socket, it crashed into a new position
I think three times, and possibly if I had
continued to pull, I could make more such
sounds/movements. With every crash sound, it
moved perhaps 30 degrees.

I assume that you know the difference between
a freewheel and a freehub.


OK?

If you have a vernier caliper you can measure
the spacers and let Muzi know and he can
straighten things out.


This particular cassette is already on a bike
but I will see if I can pick apart another,
spent cassette and get back to you. However it
could be another brand but why not.

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 69 Blogomatic articles -
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  #22  
Old March 7th 17, 06:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,313
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 1:22:54 AM UTC-5, Emanuel Berg wrote:
nil wrote:

jbeattie wrote:

lock ring a good yank. With the serrations
Where are those, one the spacers
mentioned earlier?


I advise you not to listen to anyone else on
this subject except Al Muzi.


During the Russian revolution civil war the
Reds didn't have any visible rank system to
tell their soldiers apart. Still, everyone knew
who was the boss. A good system, I'd say...

Otherwise tighten firm and not real tight.
I think that the "crash" you're talking about
is the serrations/semi-ratchet teeth on the
inside of the lock ring. These are to keep
the lock ring from backing off if it isn't
tight enough.


So, the lock ring bolt has serrations on the
inside that has a semi-ratcheting property...
but contrary to a real ratchet which goes
"chirr chirr chirr" this goes "crash crash
crash" with proportionally the more power in
between and larger chunks of movement?

Man, I have a bucket of worn out cassettes.
Perhaps picking one apart is educational...

The cassette should NOT rattle. If it does
there is an incorrect spacer.


I don't know if "rattle" is the sound.
When fiddling with the cassette some two or
three (?) sprockets were moving along, possibly
making some sound, actually I don't remember,
but if they did it wasn't very loud or alarming
in character. The sprockets were not spinning
but the amount of force to make them move was
minimal. They seemed to be moving in small
chunks. The cassette was brand new as said.
When I put it on and pulled with the ratchet
and socket, it crashed into a new position
I think three times, and possibly if I had
continued to pull, I could make more such
sounds/movements. With every crash sound, it
moved perhaps 30 degrees.

I assume that you know the difference between
a freewheel and a freehub.


OK?

If you have a vernier caliper you can measure
the spacers and let Muzi know and he can
straighten things out.


This particular cassette is already on a bike
but I will see if I can pick apart another,
spent cassette and get back to you. However it
could be another brand but why not.

--
underground experts united .... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Emacs Gnus Blogomatic ......... http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/blogomatic
- so far: 69 Blogomatic articles -


There is no lockring bolt. Its a serrated locking ring that screws into the cassette body.

Mayeb this will help:

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#transplant

Cheers
  #23  
Old March 7th 17, 11:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,207
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Hello again everyone!

Now I've moved on from the Swedish and
Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the
most recent of bike technology, namely the
mountain-bike or "MTB"!

I read on the cassette that you should pull it
40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way.
It is the well-known way, but OK.

I know there is a tool for this - torque
wrench, right?

I don't have one, but I do have the everyday
half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with
all the teeth (?) -
of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the
reason I know this is every time I remove it, it
is stuck like, very firmly!

When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or
four times. This seems to be normal.

I asked the local guru who did bikes since the
80s. He also claimed he was a master after only
two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand!
But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts
rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it
is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big
to be sand.

Anyway what do you guys make of all this?


Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm.


I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a
socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate
on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations,
loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool
with a socket wrench fitting.

-- Jay Beattie


No hating. The guy was asking for advice. Best advice is get the right
tool.

--
duane
  #24  
Old March 7th 17, 12:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,121
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Mon, 06 Mar 2017 21:19:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Hello again everyone!

Now I've moved on from the Swedish and
Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the
most recent of bike technology, namely the
mountain-bike or "MTB"!

I read on the cassette that you should pull it
40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way.
It is the well-known way, but OK.

I know there is a tool for this - torque
wrench, right?

I don't have one, but I do have the everyday
half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with
all the teeth (?) -
of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the
reason I know this is every time I remove it, it
is stuck like, very firmly!

When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or
four times. This seems to be normal.

I asked the local guru who did bikes since the
80s. He also claimed he was a master after only
two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand!
But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts
rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it
is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big
to be sand.

Anyway what do you guys make of all this?


The inner surface of the flange on the retaining nut is serrated and
the outside surface of the small cassette cog is also serrated and the
noise you hear is the serrations scrapping over each other. The
separations serve to act as a locking method for the retaining nut.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #25  
Old March 7th 17, 12:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,121
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 01:53:04 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Mike Causer wrote:

If you don't have enough experience to have
calibrated hands then that's the only way.
C'mon, compared to having things fail
a half-decent torque-wrench is cheap.
Mine are ex-military Britool from
a motorcycle autojumble. Not quite up to
Snap-On quality, but still good. I don't use
them them on bicycles though, just use my
hands ;-)


Shouldn't ex-military British stuff be
very good? Hey, it is where the industrial
revolution began.

By the way, if the industrial revolution
happened in the southern hemisphere, do you
think we would put screws in the other
way around?


A story I heard in the State of Maine where wooden boat building
lobster fishing was very common.

A Master boat builder sees one of the "hands" driving screws in with a
hammer. Rolf! he shouts, "What the H___ do you think those screws got
that slot in the head for?" Rolf looks up and says, "Oh yes Boss,
that's to take them out with".
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #26  
Old March 7th 17, 12:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,121
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 03:24:38 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:

I didn't look for spacers but the casette is
brand new - Sunrace 8 11-32t.


By the way, this notation, are the rest of the
sprocket sizes deductible from it? The casettes
look all symmetrical to me...


Not really although probably most 8 speed 11 - 32 cassettes will have
similar spacing between sprocket tooth counts.

Usually with, maybe, a 1 tooth change at the smaller end and a larger
jump at the large end.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #27  
Old March 7th 17, 12:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,121
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 05:39:54 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

jbeattie wrote:

lock ring a good yank. With the serrations


Where are those, one the spacers
mentioned earlier?


See http://tinyurl.com/z6h7dwz for an example. this is a pdf file buy
the way. It shows a parts breakdown of an 11 speed cassette but the
construction of all cassettes is similar.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old March 7th 17, 12:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,121
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On Mon, 6 Mar 2017 21:48:32 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 10:52:04 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Hello again everyone!

Now I've moved on from the Swedish and
Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the
most recent of bike technology, namely the
mountain-bike or "MTB"!

I read on the cassette that you should pull it
40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way.
It is the well-known way, but OK.

I know there is a tool for this - torque
wrench, right?

I don't have one, but I do have the everyday
half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with
all the teeth (?) -
of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the
reason I know this is every time I remove it, it
is stuck like, very firmly!

When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or
four times. This seems to be normal.

I asked the local guru who did bikes since the
80s. He also claimed he was a master after only
two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand!
But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts
rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it
is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big
to be sand.

Anyway what do you guys make of all this?


Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm.


I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations, loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool with a socket wrench fitting.

-- Jay Beattie


I've tightened many a cassette lockring by use of a large adjustable wrench. I just push on the wrench until the lockring stops clicking. I've NEVER had a cassette lockring come loose even those ones I've put on over a cassette with the last cog having no serrations. I just snug up the lockring on those until it feels tight. All of those cassettes were ridden for many rides of 100 kms or more.

Cheers


While admittedly I don't use a torque wrench a great deal it does
depend largely on an individual's experience.

Due to some "Command Decision" the A.F. Base where I was stationed
decided to break up the athletic teams that were essentially
professional players with no other duties, and put them out on the
line. I ended up with a 6 foot plus basketball player who literally
the strongest person I ever worked with. He could pick up a 150 lb.
turbo supercharger and hold it over his head while the crew screwed in
the mount bolts.

We didn't let him be a mechanic though as with a 1/4" tee handle he
would twist off 1/4" bolts when he tightened them.

Some times a torque wrench is necessary :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old March 7th 17, 01:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,270
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On 3/6/2017 8:22 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

Rattling high gear sprockets can indicate
a missing spacer. On classic Seven cassettes
there is a thin 1.0mm spacer between high
gear and second highest, LH item he
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/csspacr.jpg


On this particular one, I noticed they (the
high gear sprockets) were somewhat rotatable
just fiddling with them, but far from spinning
like a wheel or pulley.

I didn't look for spacers but the casette is
brand new - Sunrace 8 11-32t.

(there are other possible issues, such as 11t
sprocket on a pre-11t body and so on)


Very interesting, the wheel and thus body are
used stuff, I don't know how old. Is it too
late to examine without having to remove the
cassette? Still, could be useful next time...


Look inside the 11t sprocket and you will see the splines do
not go fully through to the outside. Add a 1mm spacer behind
the low gear, lube and torque your lockring and that rattle
will go away.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #30  
Old March 7th 17, 01:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,270
Default cassette clockwise arrow 40 nm

On 3/7/2017 5:07 AM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
On 06/03/2017 3:19 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Hello again everyone!

Now I've moved on from the Swedish and
Norwegian standard bikes of the 70s into the
most recent of bike technology, namely the
mountain-bike or "MTB"!

I read on the cassette that you should pull it
40 nm. There is even an arrow pointing the way.
It is the well-known way, but OK.

I know there is a tool for this - torque
wrench, right?

I don't have one, but I do have the everyday
half-inch ratchet, and the special socket with
all the teeth (?) -
of 40 nm, I know only this is a lot and the
reason I know this is every time I remove it, it
is stuck like, very firmly!

When I pull, I hear a crash sound three or
four times. This seems to be normal.

I asked the local guru who did bikes since the
80s. He also claimed he was a master after only
two years. Anyway he suggested it was sand!
But I'm not that stupid I don't make the parts
rudimentary clean before I operate them. So it
is not sand. Besides the sound is much to big
to be sand.

Anyway what do you guys make of all this?


Get a torque wrench and tighten it to 40nm.


I have a couple of torque wrenches, but my cassette took does not have a
socket wrench fitting -- so I use a adjustable wrench. Go ahead and hate
on me, but I just give the lock ring a good yank. With the serrations,
loosening is unlikely. But now I feel bad and will go out and find a tool
with a socket wrench fitting.

-- Jay Beattie


No hating. The guy was asking for advice. Best advice is get the right
tool.


Excellent advice but it won't fix his problem as he appears
to have incompatible parts. Adding a 1mm spacer behind low
gear will lock his 11t-start cassette on his pre-11t
cassette body.

Oh, one more note: Lockrings for 11t are smaller OD. The
wrong lockring will interfere with the chain. Just thought
of that after Mr Berg's comment about 'bucket of parts'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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