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Decent bicycle light cost



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 9th 17, 01:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 5:00:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 3:18:47 PM UTC-6, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

My questions then are; #1. do you go to the expense of buying a bicycle light without having a money back guarantee if that light doesn't wrok for you the way you need it too?


If you buy a bike and it does not ride as fast as you want, do you get your money back? If you buy a tire and ride it 1000 miles and decide it does not stick in corners like it should, do you get your money back? If you buy chain lubricant and it does not keep your chain silent in downpours, and you use half the bottle, do you get your money back? Some things you have to check before you buy. Like weight, weigh it before you buy it. Or size, try it on before buying. Or lights, turn them on in a dark room to see if they are bright enough.




#2. do any shops you use give such a guarantee if you want it and would they stand behind that gurantee?


You are asking if shops give 100% new return prices for a used product you have used, worn for hundreds of miles or months? I know there are a few stores that have return policies like that. Most don't.


A totally nonsense reply there.

I can tell after one short nightime ride whether the light meets my needs. It's nothing like buying a bicycle. Besides, many shops do let you take a bicycle out for a decent length test ride.

Cheers
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  #12  
Old March 9th 17, 01:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 7:05:58 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
Snipped

As for lights, my L&M SECA 1400, which is all the light anyone could ever need, was $89 off a sale table. Apparently, that model was discontinued in favor of an even brighter light for lumenaholics. http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/seca My all-in-one was $47 on super-duper discount at the winter sale at Western Bikeworks -- the L&M Urban 800 I've been talking about. Either of those would be fine for commuters who have no problems remembering to charge.

Now, the dyno hub I got on sale, too, for $100, and I still have my first purchase -- A Supernova E3 that I have to sell on eBay because it sucked as a commuting light (basically useless stand light and poor light output at low speeds climbing), and then I dumped a bunch of money into a LUXOS B -- just because I wanted to continue down the dyno light rabbit hole. None of that stuff was returnable after I had trimmed wires or built the hub into a wheel. I'm out a ton.

And about building the wheel. I've built a lot of wheels and have a first generation Park stand purchased in 1980, gobs of spokes from old projects and retired wheels and even some rims knocking around that I could lace into a dyno wheel. The cost to me beyond the hub was a bottle of beer and the time to build the front wheel. For normal folks, the total is $250 plus shipping (CR18 rim/QR). http://www.perennialcycle.com/produc...idproduct=6683

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.

-- Jay Beattie.


Which is PRECISELY why I'm very leary about buying any hub dynamo lighting system. I too can build my own wheels.

I also remember those crappy bottle dynamos that gave off a very flickering light and were nearly useless at low speed and went completely out at intersections or anywhere else one stopped. I used rubber boots overthe roller but to no avail. then I tried the Sanyo bottom mount dynamo and had a lousy T-shaped beam = a VERY narrow long beam and then a narrow cross beam atthe end of that = next to useless. After that I started using battery lights.

Cheers
  #13  
Old March 9th 17, 01:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 4:05:58 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:10:48 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 1:18:47 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
One ofthe things that I've noticed about decent bicycle lights whether internal battery, exteranl battery or dynamo is that for the average person the light is expensive. I bought my CygoLite Riover II light nearly ten years ago and I ONLY bought it becausethe bicycle shop gave me a money back guarantee if it did not meet my riding needs. Mountain Equipment Co-op (aka MEC) here in Canada also offers a moneyback guarantee if something doesn't meet the customers needs.

With a dynamo hub system that's pretty hard for a shop to do unless they offer the customer a loaner built up dynamo hub wheel. I KNOW thatthe hub dynamo light I tried otside a shop in another city about 50 kms from me did NOT match the brightness road illumination of my CygoLite Rover II light and especially at low speed.

My questions then are; #1. do you go to the expense of buying a bicycle light without having a money back guarantee if that light doesn't wrok for you the way you need it too? and #2. do any shops you use give such a guarantee if you want it and would they stand behind that gurantee?

Cheers


As you might remember I was hit from behind while riding to work October 2015. Although it was 9AM it changed my spending strategy W.R.T. lights. I felt bewildered by my previous desire to spend $30 on a headlight, went to Performance and put down closer to $100/ea for two identical USB rechargable headlights, $50/ea for two USB rechargeable taillights. One to keep charging on desk at work as I am forgetful.

I am now pricing $300 hubs from Peter White Cycles. For what reason I was trying to save a few tens of $$ on headlights in the bike-commuting years of the past, I know not.


A dyno hub or hub hubs?

Huh?!? No understand. I thot(assumed) that all the hubs on PWC are dyno hubs, no?

As for lights, my L&M SECA 1400, which is all the light anyone could ever need, was $89 off a sale table. Apparently, that model was discontinued in favor of an even brighter light for lumenaholics. http://www.lightandmotion.com/choose-your-light/seca My all-in-one was $47 on super-duper discount at the winter sale at Western Bikeworks -- the L&M Urban 800 I've been talking about. Either of those would be fine for commuters who have no problems remembering to charge.


Oh gawd. Now I'm reading the L&M website. But I thot you ran a Luxos B?

Now, the dyno hub I got on sale, too, for $100, and I still have my first purchase -- A Supernova E3 that I have to sell on eBay because it sucked as a commuting light (basically useless stand light and poor light output at low speeds climbing), and then I dumped a bunch of money into a LUXOS B -- just because I wanted to continue down the dyno light rabbit hole. None of that stuff was returnable after I had trimmed wires or built the hub into a wheel. I'm out a ton.


Hmm. Uhm.... ... ... Er. This raises still more questions... will take me a few to figure out this comment.


And about building the wheel. I've built a lot of wheels and have a first generation Park stand purchased in 1980, gobs of spokes from old projects and retired wheels and even some rims knocking around that I could lace into a dyno wheel. The cost to me beyond the hub was a bottle of beer and the time to build the front wheel. For normal folks, the total is $250 plus shipping (CR18 rim/QR). http://www.perennialcycle.com/produc...idproduct=6683

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.


Well hell I already spent $1K on a used lance armstrong replica trek 5200, and another $900 on a kestrel talon, just for fun, when the fact is any ol' steel 7-speed roadbike like a $150 Saronni with 105 - or a $250 pristine 1990's taiwanese schwinn paramount - would serve just as well. So what the ****.

That said it is always fun to get kool stuff for cheap, and I'm still enjoying the many items I bought from the sale table for $5 when Los Gatos Schwinn finally went out of business in the late '90s. I still have one of the several Mavic Open Pro 36h rims I got for $5/ea, and another $5 item was a wooden letter-tray full of DT and wheelsmith stainless spokes. Most double-butted, the box must weight tens of pounds and have 30 or 40 bundles each of 50-100 spokes in increments of 1mm from 250-something to 30-something. There were also 3-4 Bontrager Mustang and Clydesdale rims also $5/ea. And a bunch of ultegra, 105, and Joytech hubs also $5/ea. So I bought a copy of "The Book" and have been built a half dozen wheels so far for $10.10 each and still have a few rims and 10 or 20 Lbs of spokes to go.

In fact I'm so swimming in SS wheelsmith spokes that I'm also using them as dirtbike-exhaust-pipe-spring-removers, bong pokers, etc.





  #14  
Old March 9th 17, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Default Decent bicycle light cost

On 3/8/2017 5:22 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 3:58:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 2:10 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 1:18:47 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
One ofthe things that I've noticed about decent bicycle lights whether internal battery, exteranl battery or dynamo is that for the average person the light is expensive. I bought my CygoLite Riover II light nearly ten years ago and I ONLY bought it becausethe bicycle shop gave me a money back guarantee if it did not meet my riding needs. Mountain Equipment Co-op (aka MEC) here in Canada also offers a moneyback guarantee if something doesn't meet the customers needs.

With a dynamo hub system that's pretty hard for a shop to do unless they offer the customer a loaner built up dynamo hub wheel. I KNOW thatthe hub dynamo light I tried otside a shop in another city about 50 kms from me did NOT match the brightness road illumination of my CygoLite Rover II light and especially at low speed.

My questions then are; #1. do you go to the expense of buying a bicycle light without having a money back guarantee if that light doesn't wrok for you the way you need it too? and #2. do any shops you use give such a guarantee if you want it and would they stand behind that gurantee?

Cheers

As you might remember I was hit from behind while riding to work October 2015. Although it was 9AM it changed my spending strategy W.R.T. lights. I felt bewildered by my previous desire to spend $30 on a headlight, went to Performance and put down closer to $100/ea for two identical USB rechargable headlights, $50/ea for two USB rechargeable taillights. One to keep charging on desk at work as I am forgetful.

I am now pricing $300 hubs from Peter White Cycles. For what reason I was trying to save a few tens of $$ on headlights in the bike-commuting years of the past, I know not.


You might want to look at the SP PD-8X hubs. About $180 and as good as
the higher cost dynamo hubs, sometimes better (more efficient).
http://www.sp-dynamo.com/8Xseriesdynamo%20hub.html.

Pair it with a Supernova E3 Triple 2
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/supernova.php.


Okay, I'm reading the sp-dynamo site, but I'll tell ya rite now, all of this is pure sensory overload. Or pure overload, at least. Meaning every dam light on Peter White's site sounds like the greatest thing ever. I don't see how one can possibly go wrong no matter what one buys from Peter except by getting one that's too good and blinding oncoming traffic with it.

That said, I was just thinking that I see no reason not to get the schmidt hub, for its fantastically low drag and wide spacing, and the luxos U for its ability to charge one's phone. Just as soon not have the handlebar switch , but whatever.

(Also, I don't understand the difference between the shimano 3N70, 71, and 72, and 80 for that matter, and also see that the 80 is not available in 36h, and I have a 36h rim I'd like to use.)

I guess I do see the point of going with Sanyo, as they are about 1/4 the price, at $50. Whatever. I'm drooling over the schmidt, so...


You might want to look at some eBay sellers that are selling 36 spoke
wheels with Sanyo or SP dynamos.

  #15  
Old March 9th 17, 02:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 7,983
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.


Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.

  #16  
Old March 9th 17, 05:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 2,696
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.


Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.


I consider the bargain dyno wheels to be too lo-fi, although they probably work nearly as well as the PD-8. Not sure about the light output of the $80 light -- but yes, the E3 Triple 2 (for sale by me) at 640 lumens is billed as the brightest dyno light on the market. Kind of underwhelming -- but you don't have to charge it, except on your credit card.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #17  
Old March 9th 17, 06:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 3,571
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:46:00 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.


Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200..
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.


I consider the bargain dyno wheels to be too lo-fi, although they probably work nearly as well as the PD-8. Not sure about the light output of the $80 light -- but yes, the E3 Triple 2 (for sale by me) at 640 lumens is billed as the brightest dyno light on the market. Kind of underwhelming -- but you don't have to charge it, except on your credit card.

-- Jay Beattie.


Is that the one you used and had so much trouble seeing up the road/trail with when going up a steep hill or over a steep hump?

Cheers
  #18  
Old March 9th 17, 02:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 8,936
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On 3/8/2017 11:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.


Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.


I consider the bargain dyno wheels to be too lo-fi, although they probably work nearly as well as the PD-8. Not sure about the light output of the $80 light -- but yes, the E3 Triple 2 (for sale by me) at 640 lumens is billed as the brightest dyno light on the market. Kind of underwhelming -- but you don't have to charge it, except on your credit card.

-- Jay Beattie.


That and the warm fuzzy feeling of a light powered by
genuine German electrons.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #19  
Old March 9th 17, 03:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,183
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:10:48 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 1:18:47 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
One ofthe things that I've noticed about decent bicycle lights whether internal battery, exteranl battery or dynamo is that for the average person the light is expensive. I bought my CygoLite Riover II light nearly ten years ago and I ONLY bought it becausethe bicycle shop gave me a money back guarantee if it did not meet my riding needs. Mountain Equipment Co-op (aka MEC) here in Canada also offers a moneyback guarantee if something doesn't meet the customers needs.

With a dynamo hub system that's pretty hard for a shop to do unless they offer the customer a loaner built up dynamo hub wheel. I KNOW thatthe hub dynamo light I tried otside a shop in another city about 50 kms from me did NOT match the brightness road illumination of my CygoLite Rover II light and especially at low speed.

My questions then are; #1. do you go to the expense of buying a bicycle light without having a money back guarantee if that light doesn't wrok for you the way you need it too? and #2. do any shops you use give such a guarantee if you want it and would they stand behind that gurantee?

Cheers


As you might remember I was hit from behind while riding to work October 2015. Although it was 9AM it changed my spending strategy W.R.T. lights. I felt bewildered by my previous desire to spend $30 on a headlight, went to Performance and put down closer to $100/ea for two identical USB rechargable headlights, $50/ea for two USB rechargeable taillights. One to keep charging on desk at work as I am forgetful.

I am now pricing $300 hubs from Peter White Cycles. For what reason I was trying to save a few tens of $$ on headlights in the bike-commuting years of the past, I know not.

-dkl


Uh, you were hit from behind so you bought more expensive headlights?
  #20  
Old March 9th 17, 03:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 2,696
Default Decent bicycle light cost

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 10:34:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:46:00 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 6:41:38 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/8/2017 4:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:

So, you're easily looking at $400 for a mid-fi dyno set up: $250 wheel and $150 light. None returnable in the event you conclude that the light sucks. But, at the end of the day, you have a light you don't have to charge and that runs as long as you do.

Not really. Lots of dynamo hub wheels are available for $90-125. You can
get a decent light for about $80. So you could get going for about $200.
It's not going to be nearly as good as what you can get in a $100
battery-powered light though. Or even a $50 battery-powered light. But
no one is buying a dynamo light for any reason other than not having to
worry about batteries--visibility and safety are secondary concern.


I consider the bargain dyno wheels to be too lo-fi, although they probably work nearly as well as the PD-8. Not sure about the light output of the $80 light -- but yes, the E3 Triple 2 (for sale by me) at 640 lumens is billed as the brightest dyno light on the market. Kind of underwhelming -- but you don't have to charge it, except on your credit card.

-- Jay Beattie.


Is that the one you used and had so much trouble seeing up the road/trail with when going up a steep hill or over a steep hump?

Cheers


You know, it wasn't terrible, but I think my expectations were far too high -- particularly at low speeds. I also wanted more of a stand light since part of my frequent commute involves trail and stairs. The work around is a little battery light. The LUXOS B has a somewhat better stand light and better low speed light but less total light output -- and a StVZO beam pattern. I bought a tree-limb radar system from Garmin to manage the beam cut-off issues.
-- Jay Beattie.
 




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