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#22
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Shoe Overlap
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 1:08:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 10:29:10 PM UTC+1, wrote: On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 5:02:44 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 6:14:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: A friend of mine just had a custom bike built and although it fits great there is a 2 cm shoe overlap of the front wheel. The danger of this is making a hard turn and trying to straighten out with your foot then in the way. Criterium racers in particular could do this because they only stop pedalling at the absolute apex and then start again with the front wheel still turned. Anyone else had any experience with this? I remember high siding because of this. Luckily not in a race to be run over by a hundred riders. Custom build and shoe overlap? I would want my money back. Turns out that shoe overlap is common. Especially among pro climbers who are small and have short arms. So why would you want your money back? Tell us HOW this overlap can have any effect? I had an old Motobecane that had overlap. I managed to crash the bike because of this but at a standstill. Would you want your money back from Motobecane? Do you suppose a company that has been building custom bikes for 60 years doesn't know what they're doing? I'm not trying to insult you. I'm suggesting that if you don't have any direct experience with this sort of thing just making comments isn't helpful. Overlap is not uncommon but still unwanted and a nuisance from time to time. You can design around it and that is what I expect when you have a bike custom build. I had two bikes with an overlap: a commuter bike and my first cross bike both of the shelf bikes. When balancing the commuter bike at a stop light the overlap bothered me. With my first cross bike it was more of a pain, because you have a lot of sharp slow speed turns. Although not the main reason to sell the bikes but in the next year model of the cross bike they solved this issue together with the heel clearance (also a design flaw). The perfect handling didn't noticeably changed. From a builder with 60 years experience I would expect that they would mention this if the cutomer forgot this and ask if this would be a problem. Lou I expect that my Redline cross bike has overlap but I've never had a problem with it because I corner with the outside pedal down to reduce center-of-gravity. Perhaps my Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra does as well but as I noted in the last posting I balance with my body sitting now and not standing. So I can had a pedal down or almost down so that overlap is never a problem. |
#23
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Shoe Overlap
So why would you want your money back? Tell us HOW this overlap can have any effect? I had an old Motobecane that had overlap. I managed to crash the bike because of this but at a standstill. Would you want your money back from Motobecane? LOL Good luck! Seen bikesdirect.com? If you want your money back I hope it's from some company -other- than Motobecane |
#24
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Shoe Overlap
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#25
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Shoe Overlap
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#26
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Shoe Overlap
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 3/12/2017 8:02 AM, wrote: On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 6:14:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: A friend of mine just had a custom bike built and although it fits great there is a 2 cm shoe overlap of the front wheel. The danger of this is making a hard turn and trying to straighten out with your foot then in the way. Criterium racers in particular could do this because they only stop pedalling at the absolute apex and then start again with the front wheel still turned. Anyone else had any experience with this? I remember high siding because of this. Luckily not in a race to be run over by a hundred riders. Custom build and shoe overlap? I would want my money back. I think I'd want my money back only if I had specified "no overlap." But I probably wouldn't bother to specify that. It just doesn't bother me. It does perhaps illustrate an important point. When buying a custom frame, do be sure to specify everything that's important to you. Our now-ancient tandem was custom built for us. It was delayed for many months. When we were finally called to pick it up, I found it was painted the wrong color, it lacked some water bottle mounts and other minor braze-ons I'd wanted, lacked the clear coat over the paint, and (since I'd ordered the bike built up) had some equipment mistakes. The most serious of those was a Phil rear hub that lacked left side threading for a brake. (Actually, the most serious problem was fitting track gauge instead of tandem gauge fork blades. But I didn't know that until decades later, when the forks snapped off.) Anyway, Jim Bradford (the builder) said "Look, I'm leaving for my honeymoon in a couple weeks. Do you want the bike or not?" I grumped and took the bike. But if I'd given the guy written specifications for every detail on some sort of official form, I might have avoided some unpleasantness. I'm not sure that a frame, with a 54 cm (center to center) top tube, 700c wheels and normal trail, can be built without toe overlap. Of course, with a higher bottom bracket toe clearance increases but, from measuring my own bike, the B.B would have to be 3" higher which would probably end up with pretty strange looking bicycle :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#27
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Shoe Overlap
On 3/13/2017 9:33 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 22:46:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/12/2017 8:02 AM, wrote: On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 6:14:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: A friend of mine just had a custom bike built and although it fits great there is a 2 cm shoe overlap of the front wheel. The danger of this is making a hard turn and trying to straighten out with your foot then in the way. Criterium racers in particular could do this because they only stop pedalling at the absolute apex and then start again with the front wheel still turned. Anyone else had any experience with this? I remember high siding because of this. Luckily not in a race to be run over by a hundred riders. Custom build and shoe overlap? I would want my money back. I think I'd want my money back only if I had specified "no overlap." But I probably wouldn't bother to specify that. It just doesn't bother me. It does perhaps illustrate an important point. When buying a custom frame, do be sure to specify everything that's important to you. Our now-ancient tandem was custom built for us. It was delayed for many months. When we were finally called to pick it up, I found it was painted the wrong color, it lacked some water bottle mounts and other minor braze-ons I'd wanted, lacked the clear coat over the paint, and (since I'd ordered the bike built up) had some equipment mistakes. The most serious of those was a Phil rear hub that lacked left side threading for a brake. (Actually, the most serious problem was fitting track gauge instead of tandem gauge fork blades. But I didn't know that until decades later, when the forks snapped off.) Anyway, Jim Bradford (the builder) said "Look, I'm leaving for my honeymoon in a couple weeks. Do you want the bike or not?" I grumped and took the bike. But if I'd given the guy written specifications for every detail on some sort of official form, I might have avoided some unpleasantness. I'm not sure that a frame, with a 54 cm (center to center) top tube, 700c wheels and normal trail, can be built without toe overlap. Of course, with a higher bottom bracket toe clearance increases but, from measuring my own bike, the B.B would have to be 3" higher which would probably end up with pretty strange looking bicycle :-) I think that's the reason that somewhere around 1985, Bill Boston then Georgena Terry started building road bikes with smaller front wheels. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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Shoe Overlap
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#29
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Shoe Overlap
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:47:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 6:34:04 PM UTC-7, ERSHC wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:29:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 5:02:44 AM UTC-7, wrote: Custom build and shoe overlap? I would want my money back. Turns out that shoe overlap is common. Especially among pro climbers who are small and have short arms. So why would you want your money back? Tell us HOW this overlap can have any effect? I had an old Motobecane that had overlap. I managed to crash the bike because of this but at a standstill. Would you want your money back from Motobecane? Do you suppose a company that has been building custom bikes for 60 years doesn't know what they're doing? I'm not trying to insult you. I'm suggesting that if you don't have any direct experience with this sort of thing just making comments isn't helpful. It may make the bike bike not-race-legal. UCI CLARIFICATION GUIDE OF THE UCI TECHNICAL REGULATION quotes ARTICLE 1.3.009: "The bicycle should have handlebars which allow it to be ridden and manoeuvred in any circumstances and in complete safety.” and adds the comentary: " ... Bicycles shall have at least 89 mm clearance between the pedal spindle and the front tyre when turned to any position in accordance with the requirements of the EN14781 safety standard to not be hindered when turning." What does it say about mounting 175 mm cranks on that bike with 89mm clearance? If it has 89mm clearance with 175s then you can ride it with 175s. If it has only 90 mm clearance with 165s then you can't ride it with 175s. You don't measure a frame, you measure a complete bike. Legal with 165 mm cranks and not legal with 175s is possible. One might question the sanity of some of the UCI rules, and of course they don't apply to non-racers, but thems the rules none the less. So if you spring for a custom bike with the intent to race it, and are not allowed to race, you might reasonably want your money back. Assuming, of course, the builder knew your intent and crank size. |
#30
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Shoe Overlap
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 01:31:12 -0000 (UTC), ERSHC
wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 14:29:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 5:02:44 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 6:14:43 PM UTC+1, wrote: A friend of mine just had a custom bike built and although it fits great there is a 2 cm shoe overlap of the front wheel. The danger of this is making a hard turn and trying to straighten out with your foot then in the way. Criterium racers in particular could do this because they only stop pedalling at the absolute apex and then start again with the front wheel still turned. Anyone else had any experience with this? I remember high siding because of this. Luckily not in a race to be run over by a hundred riders. Custom build and shoe overlap? I would want my money back. Turns out that shoe overlap is common. Especially among pro climbers who are small and have short arms. So why would you want your money back? Tell us HOW this overlap can have any effect? I had an old Motobecane that had overlap. I managed to crash the bike because of this but at a standstill. Would you want your money back from Motobecane? Do you suppose a company that has been building custom bikes for 60 years doesn't know what they're doing? I'm not trying to insult you. I'm suggesting that if you don't have any direct experience with this sort of thing just making comments isn't helpful. It may make the bike bike not-race-legal. UCI CLARIFICATION GUIDE OF THE UCI TECHNICAL REGULATION quotes ARTICLE 1.3.009: "The bicycle should have handlebars which allow it to be ridden and manoeuvred in any circumstances and in complete safety. and adds the comentary: " ... Bicycles shall have at least 89 mm clearance between the pedal spindle and the front tyre when turned to any position in accordance with the requirements of the EN14781 safety standard to not be hindered when turning." I just measured one of my bicycles and it is 60cm from the BB axle to front wheel axle, well within the 53 - 65cm limits. It has 170mm crank arms and 700c - 25 tires and when I measure the distance between the pedal axle and the front tire it is 90mm. Then I clipped a shoe into the pedal and the distance from the pedal axle to the toe of the shoe is 11.5cm. Shoe size is 42. So a legal UCI bike may have toe overlap. -- Cheers, John B. |
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