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Shimano Headset



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 10th 17, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 8,764
Default Shimano Headset

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/hp6207.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old May 10th 17, 09:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,292
Default Shimano Headset

On 2017-05-09 17:39, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/hp6207.jpg


In the lower picture you can see what I mentioned in another thread:
Fixed wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are always larger than
the nuts. Have to be in order to account for tolerances. So they never
grab cleanly which will wear the nut over time and also ding it. Some
people are very particular about the appearance of their ride for
whatever reason.

What helps against cosmetic nut damage is to stick Kapton tape on the
wrench insides or the nut. I place it onto the wrenches because then I
can use it over and over again.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #3  
Old May 10th 17, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 353
Default Shimano Headset

Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.
Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.

Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!

No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #4  
Old May 10th 17, 10:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,021
Default Shimano Headset

Tape ! Buy an undersized wrench n grind to fit. This dId not occur to you ?

Grinding insures the part is obsolete in one year
  #5  
Old May 10th 17, 11:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 4,292
Default Shimano Headset

On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #6  
Old May 10th 17, 11:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 3,552
Default Shimano Headset

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.


Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


If adjustable wrenches are so dang great then why do repair shops spend thousands of dollars on wrenches designed to fit the fastener?

Cheers
  #7  
Old May 11th 17, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 353
Default Shimano Headset

Joerg wrote:

Even if it could in theory just feel the
part that is adjustable - you can almost
always ruck it back and forth, just a bit
but nonetheless.

Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than
with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Perhaps the size of the nut is of
importance here.

For example, with adjustable wrenches when you
pull a small item it sometimes happens that
item gets tilted and stuck in the wrench.
This never happened to me with the fixed sizes.

But it is logical that adjustable wrenches pull
tighter so at some level of quality and
carefull work they should surpass
anything fixed...

In practice, on a typical bike. Say 8 and 10 mm
for details. 13 for the saddle and 14 or 15 for
the dome nuts. If you leave any normal person
with this bike and fixed keys the work will be
many times as good and much faster. Remember,
it is not just pulling, it is also HOLDING
while pulling at the same time.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #8  
Old May 11th 17, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,148
Default Shimano Headset

On Wed, 10 May 2017 15:41:23 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 6:19:24 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 14:41, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

In the lower picture you can see what
I mentioned in another thread: Fixed
wrenches, in contrast to adjustable ones, are
always larger than the nuts. Have to be in
order to account for tolerances. So they
never grab cleanly which will wear the nut
over time and also ding it.

Well... doesn't any wrench has to be bigger
than the nut in order to grab it?

Adjustable tools doesn't offer a tighter grip.



They sure do, provided you have a good one and not one from the local
discounter.


Even if it could in theory just feel the part
that is adjustable - you can almost always ruck
it back and forth, just a bit but nonetheless.


Yes, but that sliver is much smaller than with a regular sized fixed wrench.


Also the adjustable wrench is often used in
a careless manner. People don't adjust it to
perfection before they pull!


Ya well, if people use them as hammers and such the work result will
usually show it.


No, fixed keys are the best and in particular
the ring side (closed end) of the combination
spanner as that pulls on all sides of a hex
bolt or nut.


For most situations I use fixed wrenches but not when if has to be super
snug. However, as I said I have a few really high-quality adjustable
wrenches. The smaller cheaper ones are more for emergencies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


If adjustable wrenches are so dang great then why do repair

shops spend thousands of dollars on wrenches designed to fit the
fastener?

Cheers


Actually wrenches and nuts and bolts aren't designed so that the
wrench is a press fit onto the fastener since that would mean that in
order to fit the wrench to the fastener it would have to be in perfect
alignment. Hardly practical in a working environment.

Nor is some mythical "perfect fit" necessary as fasteners are designed
to be tightened or loosened using conventional tools and the size of
the hexagon head or nut provides sufficient flat length to avoid the
wrench slipping and rounding the corners. In fact, using conventional
wrenches it is quite easy to actually break the shank of a fastener
without damaging the head at all.

But then, to one who habitually uses a nail and a rock as a chain tool
the use of proper tools is probably a mystery.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #9  
Old May 11th 17, 09:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 353
Default Shimano Headset

John B. wrote:

In fact, using conventional wrenches it is
quite easy to actually break the shank of
a fastener without damaging the head at all.


Fixed wrenches do not damage the head. They are
faster, more reliable and more ergonomic than
adjustable wrenches and I dare say they pull
tighter or as tight in practice, using them all
day long.

It is possible in a test lab for a single bolt
it is possible to show an adjustable wrench
pulls tighter but in practice it is actually
the adjustable wrench that will round the
corners as the mechanic will get tired and make
mistakes. And one source of him/her getting
tired will be having to adjust the wrench all
the time

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #10  
Old May 11th 17, 11:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,148
Default Shimano Headset

On Thu, 11 May 2017 10:47:10 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

In fact, using conventional wrenches it is
quite easy to actually break the shank of
a fastener without damaging the head at all.


Fixed wrenches do not damage the head. They are
faster, more reliable and more ergonomic than
adjustable wrenches and I dare say they pull
tighter or as tight in practice, using them all
day long.

It is possible in a test lab for a single bolt
it is possible to show an adjustable wrench
pulls tighter but in practice it is actually
the adjustable wrench that will round the
corners as the mechanic will get tired and make
mistakes. And one source of him/her getting
tired will be having to adjust the wrench all
the time


There used to be a "rule of thumb" to always use an adjustable wrench
so that the force is against the fixed jaw. I have proved this rule
myself. I was squatting down tightening the bolts that held a large
vise to a bench. The wrench didn't fit in its proper orientation so I
flipped it over and pushed against the movable jaw. I proved, at least
to my own satisfaction, that (1) an adjustable wrench used in this
manner will slip, and (2) a broken nose Hurts!

--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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