Age where it is no longer appropriate for children to ride onsidewalks?

jbeattie writes:

On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 5:17:35 PM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

On 2/9/2017 11:57 AM, Joerg wrote:

Argument #2: Like Tim said, this increase will result in more and also
more serious pedestrian injuries. 12 year olds have a lot of muscle
power, they can easily exceed 20mph, and they will. That is not safe.

The instructor I brought in, who is also a racer, emphasized the big
difference between 10 year olds and 12 year olds in terms of speed and
power.

How does enforcement work, practically? Does a cop pull over a young
cyclist and ask for ID that shows he's under 10, or under 12?
How many 10 year olds can prove their age? Does he get a citation that
requires him to show up in court?

What if he is a Somalian immigrant with no birth record? Is a cop
supposed to take a core sample and count the rings?

I think we should have an immediate freeze on any and all children
riding on sidewalks. Not a ban, but a pause to determine how we can
vet children before allowing them to ride on sidewalks. SMS should
have his transportation department report to him every 30 days until a
solution is found. We must ensure that our sidewalks are free from
over-aged bicycle terrorists.

Or just civilly forfeit their bicycles, shouldn't have to ID them for
that. Tough crowd.


--

jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 4:34:25 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 2/9/2017 12:38 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
sms wrote:

But the consensus was that by
raising the age limit we are encouraging kids to ride because the kids
and their parents feel safe on sidewalks, even though the evidence
doesn't support this feeling.

So what’s the procedure for when children and parents want to ride
together? Are parent’s simply not allowed on the sidewalk to ride
with their children?

The issue I raised, that got one other council member on my side, was
the problem of fast cyclists, riding opposite traffic, on the sidewalk,
speeding down sidewalk ramps into intersections, where drivers aren't
expecting or looking for a high speed cyclist.

That’s really the best argument: it should be a speed limit, not an
age limit. You just need different ways of framing it to get the
point across. It should also apply to all “use� of a sidewalk,
including things like rollerblades, electric scooters, and even the
cars crossing the sidewalk to park in the garage. Anybody looking
to go zipping around faster than, say, 10mph or 15kph should be
using the road. And, really, it should drop to *half* that when
pedestrians are present.

One problem is that there are really no double-blind studies that can
quantify the difference in the danger between sidewalk riding and street
riding, by age. Even though we know that sidewalks are not appropriate
for anything other than small children on little bikes, with adult
supervision, it's hard to explain to non-cyclists why the sidewalk is
not the safer place to ride. I suppose that I could get our resident AHZ
to make up some studies for me, but this city` council, while not
composed of cyclists, is too smart to fall for the kind of thing.

Practically speaking, this law will have almost no effect on the number
of 11 and 12 year olds riding on the sidewalk. If they do it now they
will keep doing it. If they don't do it now, they won't start doing it.
But it sends the wrong message.

And of course, in some instances, it is necessary to ride on the
sidewalk regardless of the rider's age.

Isn't this all solved by the usual UVC provision allowing bicyclists to
ride on the sidewalk so long as they are not exceeding the speed of
pedestrian traffic? Do you guys have an ordinance that bans riding on
sidewalks except for kids?

-- Jay Beattie


Quebec does.

--
duane

Mad rules due process in DP pop environment when SMS review is no DP as cyclists are shoved into Model T traffic 'designs'. Now we see CALTHINK upgrading criminal behavior into the 12 year perp area. SO CALTHINK

Smells like me goldminers.

As SMS, NEWPOL, lacks time fir map examples here's the drag from android

10622 S De Anza Blvd

https://goo.gl/maps/31VhLa8Df8z

Park to residential .. ect

There's a bike shop on Foothills...a Mull Holland ?

The Anza,at random (?) there's a school to residential , suggests going to 14.

I will seek castration fir the sPell ckecer

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:08:57 AM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
As SMS, NEWPOL, lacks time fir map examples here's the drag from android

10622 S De Anza Blvd

https://goo.gl/maps/31VhLa8Df8z

Park to residential .. ect

There's a bike shop on Foothills...a Mull Holland ?

The Anza,at random (?) there's a school to residential , suggests going to 14.


goo.gl/2U2sjf

goo.gl/DhGd25

goo.gl/V293a9



if sidewalks say lower income then go to 15 n off that street

Cupertino was a move to the country ?

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:37:45 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 9:08:57 AM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
As SMS, NEWPOL, lacks time fir map examples here's the drag from android

10622 S De Anza Blvd

https://goo.gl/maps/31VhLa8Df8z

Park to residential .. ect

There's a bike shop on Foothills...a Mull Holland ?

The Anza,at random (?) there's a school to residential , suggests going to 14.


goo.gl/2U2sjf

goo.gl/DhGd25

goo.gl/V293a9



if sidewalks say lower income then go to 15 n off that street

Cupertino was a move to the country ?

https://www.wunderground.com/history... db.wmo=99999

jbeattie wrote in
:

On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 4:34:25 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
Do you guys have an ordinance that bans riding on
sidewalks except for kids?

It is spotty in Ontario. AIUI, Toronto's allow for it; Ottawa's do not.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On 2/11/2017 8:37 AM, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
jbeattie wrote in
:

On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 4:34:25 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
Do you guys have an ordinance that bans riding on
sidewalks except for kids?

It is spotty in Ontario. AIUI, Toronto's allow for it; Ottawa's do not.

O Canada

http://nypost.com/2017/02/11/man-who...total-freedom/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2017-02-09 18:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 4:34:25 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 2/9/2017 12:38 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that sms
wrote:

But the consensus was that by raising the age limit we are
encouraging kids to ride because the kids and their parents
feel safe on sidewalks, even though the evidence doesn't
support this feeling.

So what’s the procedure for when children and parents want to
ride together? Are parent’s simply not allowed on the sidewalk
to ride with their children?

The issue I raised, that got one other council member on my
side, was the problem of fast cyclists, riding opposite
traffic, on the sidewalk, speeding down sidewalk ramps into
intersections, where drivers aren't expecting or looking for a
high speed cyclist.

That’s really the best argument: it should be a speed limit, not
an age limit. You just need different ways of framing it to get
the point across. It should also apply to all “use� of a
sidewalk, including things like rollerblades, electric scooters,
and even the cars crossing the sidewalk to park in the garage.
Anybody looking to go zipping around faster than, say, 10mph or
15kph should be using the road. And, really, it should drop to
*half* that when pedestrians are present.

One problem is that there are really no double-blind studies that
can quantify the difference in the danger between sidewalk riding
and street riding, by age. Even though we know that sidewalks are
not appropriate for anything other than small children on little
bikes, with adult supervision, it's hard to explain to non-cyclists
why the sidewalk is not the safer place to ride. I suppose that I
could get our resident AHZ to make up some studies for me, but this
city` council, while not composed of cyclists, is too smart to fall
for the kind of thing.

Practically speaking, this law will have almost no effect on the
number of 11 and 12 year olds riding on the sidewalk. If they do it
now they will keep doing it. If they don't do it now, they won't
start doing it. But it sends the wrong message.

And of course, in some instances, it is necessary to ride on the
sidewalk regardless of the rider's age.

Isn't this all solved by the usual UVC provision allowing bicyclists
to ride on the sidewalk so long as they are not exceeding the speed
of pedestrian traffic? Do you guys have an ordinance that bans
riding on sidewalks except for kids?


Sure. City code 2498 Section V and that even bans kids :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YY36UZ7FhU

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/