Cheap bright tail light

Am 15.09.2014 23:20, schrieb Frank Krygowski:

I guess I'm not so macho. Almost all my night riding - over four
decades of it - has been on paved roads, and I don't remember ever
exceeding 30 mph at night.

I spent a few years working in a university lab on the top of a hill
200m above town and living near the river in the valley. Being young
and carefree, I aimed at reaching a 40 mph average on the way home from
work on my low racer recumbent (6k = 4 miles on a main road in 6
minutes; the way to work in the morning was 2k in 25 minutes on a gravel
forest path).
My Halogen dynamo lights felt fully adequate to illuminating the lane
markings on the road; due to daily riding I knew there were no potholes.

I would not have dared taking the forst path at those speeds either at
day or at night.

Rolf

On 16/09/14 07:20, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I guess I'm not so macho. Almost all my night riding - over four
decades of it - has been on paved roads, and I don't remember ever
exceeding 30 mph at night.


That's really lame.

--
JS

On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:08:16 AM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 15, 2014 9:00:58 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 9/15/2014 8:33 PM, Joerg wrote:



Frank Krygowski wrote:











While bike lanes are not as popular here as in some areas, I don't



recall ever seeing such a low hanging branch. If one did occur, I'm



sure there would be complaints, and it would be removed.







IOW, I think you're inventing hazards, yet again.











No, seen it myself, a lot. An example from Spokane, WA:







http://seeclickfix.com/files/issue_i...1/DSC_0083.JPG







Others:







http://www.fixmystreet.com/report/377666



https://www.flickr.com/photos/29053105@N04/5609127887/







A scary case on one of my weekly rides is a tree where three large



branches have been cut off but each still reach a foot or so into the



trail. If you hit that at full bore it can kill you dead, as John Wayne



would have said. It would be like smacking into the end of a 4-by-4 at



15-20mph. If you are new to the trail, ride at night and don't have



high-beam lighting that could spell trouble. Ok, this is technically a



trail but it is officially a bike connection.







Good job of finding photos, but where are those from? Is it one from



Washington State, one from Australia and one from Britain? If so, it's



in the same realm as fatal shark attacks - as in, yes, it happens



occasionally, but it's hardly common.







And I was speaking of roads, not trails.







Yes, about a month ago, I took it upon myself to saw off a big branch



that was slightly obstructing a local trail, a steep downhill paved path



through the woods behind the local school, used mostly by kids. But the



branch was lying on the ground. Any headlight would show it. And if



I'd chosen instead to contact the local street department, they'd have



taken care of it within 24 hours. Indeed, I note one of your photos was



already marked "Fixed."







I don't doubt you ride gnarly terrain; but it does us no good to



exaggerate hazards of bicycling.







--



- Frank Krygowski



Cripes man! Joerg has posted images of and verbal descriptions on the OFF ROAD TRAILS repeat TRAILS tthat hee rides at night and that he either wants to ride at speed or already does but that the lights he has so far used are not adequate to ride those TRAIL at SPEED SAFELY. So, yes, for Joerg riding a bicycle can be hazardous just like it can be hazardous for any other bicyclist to ride such terrain without really good lighting especially if they want to ride at speed.



Cheers

That is true. For that kind of riding you need a lot of light. On the other hand that is exceptional so the constant whining about that there is no progress/development in bicycle lighting over the last decades is also misplaced. Even for off road riding at night there are solutions but then Joerg says he breaks everything that is made out of plastic and after that he wants a high power rear light connected to a central high capacity battery, with a switch made out off metal etc. etc. Every light people suggested is not good enough for him , that's tiring....

Lou

On 9/16/2014 1:01 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 15, 2014 6:40:00 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/15/2014 6:05 PM, sms wrote:

On 9/15/2014 1:18 PM, Joerg wrote:



In the bush you can easily break your neck if you don't see a branch

jutting out. After I got a new (thicker) helmet I misjudged branch

heights a couple of times and man, that really gives you a jolt in the

neck. It's a real danger.



One genuine issue with bicycle infrastructure (bicycle lanes) is that

there are often overhanging branches that don't extend out into the

vehicle traffic lanes.



Got photos?



While bike lanes are not as popular here as in some areas, I don't

recall ever seeing such a low hanging branch. If one did occur, I'm

sure there would be complaints, and it would be removed.



IOW, I think you're inventing hazards, yet again.



--

- Frank Krygowski

Whenever you disagree with someones observations or statmentement you almost always infer in some way that the person is lying about what they said.


Or too ignorant to understand the one true viewpoint. Very tiresome.

On 9/16/2014 6:43 AM, Duane wrote:
On 9/16/2014 1:01 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip

Whenever you disagree with someones observations or statmentement you
almost always infer in some way that the person is lying about what
they said.


Or too ignorant to understand the one true viewpoint. Very tiresome.

There's also the tendency of some people to believe that the world
revolves around them. If they (allegedly) have never encountered a
specific situation then by definition no one else has ever encountered
it either.

In their world, panel trucks, as a service to cyclists, drive down the
bicycle lane or shoulder to clear any overhead obstacles that might be a
hazard to cyclists. This service totally eliminates the need for lights
that can illuminate slightly upwards because there is no longer anything
up there to see. Nor is there ever a need to make yourself more
conspicuous while riding because all drivers have been trained to keep a
keen eye out for cyclists.

This sounds like a wonderful world. I wonder what color the sun is on
this planet.

On 9/16/2014 12:08 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 15, 2014 9:00:58 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/15/2014 8:33 PM, Joerg wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:





While bike lanes are not as popular here as in some areas, I don't

recall ever seeing such a low hanging branch. If one did occur, I'm

sure there would be complaints, and it would be removed.



IOW, I think you're inventing hazards, yet again.





No, seen it myself, a lot. An example from Spokane, WA:



http://seeclickfix.com/files/issue_i...1/DSC_0083.JPG



Others:



http://www.fixmystreet.com/report/377666

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29053105@N04/5609127887/



A scary case on one of my weekly rides is a tree where three large

branches have been cut off but each still reach a foot or so into the

trail. If you hit that at full bore it can kill you dead, as John Wayne

would have said. It would be like smacking into the end of a 4-by-4 at

15-20mph. If you are new to the trail, ride at night and don't have

high-beam lighting that could spell trouble. Ok, this is technically a

trail but it is officially a bike connection.



Good job of finding photos, but where are those from? Is it one from

Washington State, one from Australia and one from Britain? If so, it's

in the same realm as fatal shark attacks - as in, yes, it happens

occasionally, but it's hardly common.



And I was speaking of roads, not trails.



Yes, about a month ago, I took it upon myself to saw off a big branch

that was slightly obstructing a local trail, a steep downhill paved path

through the woods behind the local school, used mostly by kids. But the

branch was lying on the ground. Any headlight would show it. And if

I'd chosen instead to contact the local street department, they'd have

taken care of it within 24 hours. Indeed, I note one of your photos was

already marked "Fixed."



I don't doubt you ride gnarly terrain; but it does us no good to

exaggerate hazards of bicycling.



--

- Frank Krygowski

Cripes man! Joerg has posted images of and verbal descriptions on the OFF ROAD TRAILS repeat TRAILS tthat hee rides at night and that he either wants to ride at speed or already does but that the lights he has so far used are not adequate to ride those TRAIL at SPEED SAFELY. So, yes, for Joerg riding a bicycle can be hazardous just like it can be hazardous for any other bicyclist to ride such terrain without really good lighting especially if they want to ride at speed.

Cheers


Whether common or not trees overhanging trails for mountain
biking is a known issue and drives high output light sales.

It may well be that in every instance the rider would have
been OK but the rider perception of possible injury makes
them willing to spend something to avoid it.

Same principle for road users, the actual riders feel that
the expense of a brighter light is reasonable and every year
that expense and light output on average increases. That's a
crowdsourced data argument. Again individuals may vary in
their actual risks and also perceptions so YMMV.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:08:16 AM UTC+2, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Monday, September 15, 2014 9:00:58 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/15/2014 8:33 PM, Joerg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
While bike lanes are not as popular here as in some areas, I
don't recall ever seeing such a low hanging branch. If one
did occur, I'm sure there would be complaints, and it would
be removed. IOW, I think you're inventing hazards, yet again.

No, seen it myself, a lot. An example from Spokane, WA:
http://seeclickfix.com/files/issue_i...1/DSC_0083.JPG
Others: http://www.fixmystreet.com/report/377666
https://www.flickr.com/photos/29053105@N04/5609127887/ A scary
case on one of my weekly rides is a tree where three large
branches have been cut off but each still reach a foot or so
into the trail. If you hit that at full bore it can kill you
dead, as John Wayne would have said. It would be like smacking
into the end of a 4-by-4 at 15-20mph. If you are new to the
trail, ride at night and don't have high-beam lighting that
could spell trouble. Ok, this is technically a trail but it is
officially a bike connection.
Good job of finding photos, but where are those from? Is it one
from Washington State, one from Australia and one from Britain?
If so, it's in the same realm as fatal shark attacks - as in,
yes, it happens occasionally, but it's hardly common.


It was just a quick 15sec search, there are plenty more. I only posted
it because of the notion that Steven invented hazards while in reality
such hazards exist. I've encountered them many times and this included
situations where a bike path was so overgrown that I had to detour via
the turf.


... And I was
speaking of roads, not trails.


All pictures I posted are from roads.


... Yes, about a month ago, I took it
upon myself to saw off a big branch that was slightly obstructing
a local trail, a steep downhill paved path through the woods
behind the local school, used mostly by kids. But the branch was
lying on the ground. Any headlight would show it. And if I'd
chosen instead to contact the local street department, they'd
have taken care of it within 24 hours. Indeed, I note one of
your photos was already marked "Fixed." I don't doubt you ride
gnarly terrain; but it does us no good to exaggerate hazards of
bicycling. -- - Frank Krygowski


Cripes man! Joerg has posted images of and verbal descriptions on
the OFF ROAD TRAILS repeat TRAILS tthat hee rides at night and that
he either wants to ride at speed or already does but that the
lights he has so far used are not adequate to ride those TRAIL at
SPEED SAFELY. So, yes, for Joerg riding a bicycle can be hazardous
just like it can be hazardous for any other bicyclist to ride such
terrain without really good lighting especially if they want to
ride at speed.



Cheers

That is true. For that kind of riding you need a lot of light. On the
other hand that is exceptional so the constant whining about that
there is no progress/development in bicycle lighting over the last
decades is also misplaced.


It is not. The car industry and motorcycle industry had this figured out
almost a century ago. Ok, in part wars might have helped ruggedizing
things but mostly it was civilian efforts. They have enabled people to
use cars and motorcycles offroad at night. The bicycle industry has not.
So because of a lack of adequate technology motorized vehicle users can
do things that bike riders can't.


... Even for off road riding at night there
are solutions but then Joerg says he breaks everything that is made
out of plastic and after that he wants a high power rear light
connected to a central high capacity battery, with a switch made out
off metal etc. etc. Every light people suggested is not good enough
for him , that's tiring....


Because, maybe, there aren't any real good ones?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, September 12, 2014 3:46:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

Joerg considered Sun, 31 Aug 2014

14:02:58 -0700 the perfect time to write:



Phil W Lee wrote:

Joerg considered Sat, 30 Aug 2014

09:39:24 -0700 the perfect time to write:



Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]



Many AA or AAA tail lights are quite bright especially on trails and

some are too bright for a following rider.



But you never know when they run out of juice because the manufacturer's

engineers can't get it into their heads that there should be a charge

level indicator. Technically a piece of cake, you measure the voltage

sag upon pulsing and when that exceeds the 80% or whatever discharge

mark let the light flash a bit more irregular than usual. Then the rider

would still have time to get homes safely but would know that a fresh

set of batteries or a Li-Ion recharge is required soon. When do they

wake up?

They have.

Bettery level indicators are so common that they've made them a

mandatory requirement (on those few bikes where it's legal to not have

a dynamo system) in Germany.



For the rear light? So why are all those sold over here in the US sans

low-batt warning? Including expensive ones.



Only on the front.

But if you look after your batteries, carry spares, and have redundant

lights (I go for one flashing and one solidly on, as a minimum) you

shouldn't have a problem since battery drain is so low on a rear

light.





I always have tqwo independent tail lights because aside from batteries

one could vibrate itself inoperable on a gnarly trail section.


Why do you need a tail light at all when trail riding? On a dark trail, your headlight is a pretty good indicator of your presence -- along with the clattering of chains, crushing of leaves, etc., etc. http://reviews.mtbr.com/2012-bike-li...der-pro-3000-3

In the dark woods, a guy with a stadium light is pretty noticeable, even from behind, IMO.

-- Jay Beattie.

AMuzi wrote:
On 9/16/2014 12:08 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 15, 2014 9:00:58 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/15/2014 8:33 PM, Joerg wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:





While bike lanes are not as popular here as in some areas, I don't

recall ever seeing such a low hanging branch. If one did occur, I'm

sure there would be complaints, and it would be removed.



IOW, I think you're inventing hazards, yet again.





No, seen it myself, a lot. An example from Spokane, WA:



http://seeclickfix.com/files/issue_i...1/DSC_0083.JPG



Others:



http://www.fixmystreet.com/report/377666

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29053105@N04/5609127887/



A scary case on one of my weekly rides is a tree where three large

branches have been cut off but each still reach a foot or so into the

trail. If you hit that at full bore it can kill you dead, as John Wayne

would have said. It would be like smacking into the end of a 4-by-4 at

15-20mph. If you are new to the trail, ride at night and don't have

high-beam lighting that could spell trouble. Ok, this is technically a

trail but it is officially a bike connection.



Good job of finding photos, but where are those from? Is it one from

Washington State, one from Australia and one from Britain? If so, it's

in the same realm as fatal shark attacks - as in, yes, it happens

occasionally, but it's hardly common.



And I was speaking of roads, not trails.



Yes, about a month ago, I took it upon myself to saw off a big branch

that was slightly obstructing a local trail, a steep downhill paved path

through the woods behind the local school, used mostly by kids. But the

branch was lying on the ground. Any headlight would show it. And if

I'd chosen instead to contact the local street department, they'd have

taken care of it within 24 hours. Indeed, I note one of your photos was

already marked "Fixed."



I don't doubt you ride gnarly terrain; but it does us no good to

exaggerate hazards of bicycling.



--

- Frank Krygowski

Cripes man! Joerg has posted images of and verbal descriptions on the
OFF ROAD TRAILS repeat TRAILS tthat hee rides at night and that he
either wants to ride at speed or already does but that the lights he
has so far used are not adequate to ride those TRAIL at SPEED SAFELY.
So, yes, for Joerg riding a bicycle can be hazardous just like it can
be hazardous for any other bicyclist to ride such terrain without
really good lighting especially if they want to ride at speed.

Cheers


Whether common or not trees overhanging trails for mountain biking is a
known issue and drives high output light sales.

It may well be that in every instance the rider would have been OK but
the rider perception of possible injury makes them willing to spend
something to avoid it.

Same principle for road users, the actual riders feel that the expense
of a brighter light is reasonable and every year that expense and light
output on average increases. That's a crowdsourced data argument. Again
individuals may vary in their actual risks and also perceptions so YMMV.


Goes even for roads sometimes. One night I was coming back from a
meeting in town, pitch dark, on a main (paved!) thoroughfare through
town. Very slightly downhill, with me in the pedals at full bore, just
wanted to get home. Had a front light of around 250 lumens with the beam
nicely focused on the raod surface ahead. Then it happened on the narrow
bike lane of this road. Saw a large chunk of metal, too late, could not
stop in time and also not swerve because of cars next to me. On my MTB I
could have swerved through the ditch but this was my road bike.
*RAT-TAT-TAT* .. tchingalingaling ... barreled right over the debris.
Luckily I have Gatorskins on it and the tires held. After that I slowed
down substantially. Do we have to keep going slow because of inadequate
light?

So some day I'll even upgrade my old and seldom used road bike to
something well north of 500 lumens. This one doesn't necessarily need
high-beam although it would be nice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 12, 2014 3:46:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Phil W Lee wrote:

Joerg considered Sun, 31 Aug 2014
14:02:58 -0700 the perfect time to write:
Phil W Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Sat, 30 Aug
2014 09:39:24 -0700 the perfect time to write:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
[...]
Many AA or AAA tail lights are quite bright especially on
trails and some are too bright for a following rider.
But you never know when they run out of juice because the
manufacturer's engineers can't get it into their heads that
there should be a charge level indicator. Technically a
piece of cake, you measure the voltage sag upon pulsing and
when that exceeds the 80% or whatever discharge mark let
the light flash a bit more irregular than usual. Then the
rider would still have time to get homes safely but would
know that a fresh set of batteries or a Li-Ion recharge is
required soon. When do they wake up?
They have. Bettery level indicators are so common that
they've made them a mandatory requirement (on those few bikes
where it's legal to not have a dynamo system) in Germany.
For the rear light? So why are all those sold over here in the
US sans low-batt warning? Including expensive ones.
Only on the front. But if you look after your batteries, carry
spares, and have redundant lights (I go for one flashing and one
solidly on, as a minimum) you shouldn't have a problem since
battery drain is so low on a rear light.




I always have tqwo independent tail lights because aside from
batteries

one could vibrate itself inoperable on a gnarly trail section.



And exactly that just happened, one tail light died :-(

Luckily I still had the other for the way back.


Why do you need a tail light at all when trail riding?


It's for the road sections that are part of almost every ride. I first
have to get to the trails which I sometimes use just like car drivers
use freeways. I gladly take a 1-2mi detour on roads to reach a trail
that let me do the rest of the journey far away from cars.

I leave the blinking tail light on even during the day. Also on trails.
If you crash real bad that greatly increases the chance that a rescue
helicopter crew finds you (using their night vision gear).


... On a dark
trail, your headlight is a pretty good indicator of your presence --
along with the clattering of chains, crushing of leaves, etc., etc.
http://reviews.mtbr.com/2012-bike-li...der-pro-3000-3


Now that is a decent front light! Although I won't spend $700. On a good
fork, yes, but not on a light.


In the dark woods, a guy with a stadium light is pretty noticeable,
even from behind, IMO.


Yes, but if the guy crashes badly the stadium light will snuff itself
out with 1-2h and then it's important that the li'l tail blinky-blink
keeps blinking. I saw a rescue video where this was how they found
stranded hikers in the woods, it was impressive.

So far I never came upon a situation like that but I did when hiking.
Guy was off the trail, lying on the ground on his back, unresponsive. No
lights, no nothing. I don't think they would have found him easily. He
was hardcore dehydrated and out of blood sugar so I slowly got all that
into him and he came to. I don't know what would have happened had he
remained there all night.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/