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#11
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not stable at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at high speed). The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record in the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on the course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular instability AFAIK. I learned this the hard way. I was going down a hill that would have been nothing on a bike. The road was rough but nothing you would avoid. I was going 25 MPH by the time I decided that I didn't like the way the trike was handling. That is also the moment when I discovered that the effect of brake-steer is magnified at high speed. Folk regularly do *much* more than that on trikes, so it clearly isn't intrinsic to trikes, period. Same thing with brake steer: it'll very much be implementation dependent. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
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#12
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"Buck" wrote in message
... You should try the Catrike Speed, by the way this isn't a plug, well it is but only because I have such high regard for them. "Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Jeff Grippe wrote: Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not stable at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at high speed). The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record in the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on the course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular instability AFAIK. I did a test ride on the Catrike. There was something about the steering assembly that gave it a feel that I didn't like. On the same day I test rode the Greenspeed, WizWheelz (3.4 version), Hase, Trice, and Sun trikes. I have no idea how stable any of them are at high speeds because the 1 mile test ride that I took didn't really have any place where I could get up to high speeds. The Greenspeed was far and away my favorite. It was comfortable, rode well, and I really like the use of the internal gears (on the 81 speed version) to give you a low range that you could shift into while standing still. As for the WindCheetah, I own one (I have a "For Trade" posting in this NG). It has kind of the opposite problem. The steering is so sensitive that there is a control issue at high speed. Very little movement of the stick produces a great deal of turning. On my very first test ride in a parking lot I managed to do too tight a turn and have one wheel off the ground. The wheels are also very close to my chubby legs. I'm not (yet) comfortable with operating it above 25 MPH. It really is much more of a performance machine that I actually need. No nibbles on the trade offer so I'll probably put different size cogs on it and call it a keeper. There is virtually no brake steer, however. I will probably get more comfortable with it over time. Jeff |
#13
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On 06/07/2005 15:29:22 "Jeff Grippe" wrote: As for the WindCheetah, I own one (I have a "For Trade" posting in this NG). It has kind of the opposite problem. The steering is so sensitive that there is a control issue at high speed. Very little movement of the stick produces a great deal of turning. On my very first test ride in a parking lot I managed to do too tight a turn and have one wheel off the ground. The wheels are also very close to my chubby legs. I'm not (yet) comfortable with operating it above 25 MPH. It really is much more of a performance machine that I actually need. No nibbles on the trade offer so I'll probably put different size cogs on it and call it a keeper. There is virtually no brake steer, however. I will probably get more comfortable with it over time. Jeff Maybe you should look at the new Catrike Road with indirect steering. -- Buck I would rather be out on my Catrike www.catrike.co.uk |
#14
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Is an SWB any more likely than some other kind of 2-wheel bent (or a
wedgie) to lose control on a patch of gravel in the street? Opinions? Experiences? In my big SWB crash of last year, I went down due to severe rear wheel wobble trying to brake downhill on poor pavement heading into a curve. On a SWB, I have to be careful not to lock the rear wheel which is more lightly loaded under braking downhill than the front. In my big crash (so far) of this year, the front tire and tube blew while going heavy on the front brake down a twisty 14% paved downgrade. After last year's crash I was trying to focus on using the front brake mostly and either due to a clincher tire or tube defect or due to rim heating there was a kaboom and down I went. As undesirable as they have been (an average of one fall of any kind per 2,000 miles), fortunately each time the fall distance has been short with the only significant injury being road rash for the two cites crashes. One of my falls was when the short dirt road I was slowly going down became soft sand. But with dual 1 1/4" tires is this really a surprise? Now I watch for this condition like I have always kept an eye out for potholes, etc. having a 20" front wheel. But on another ride I rounded a corner on a paved bike path and hit slick mud washed down the side bank across the path. I did skid big time but while my mind based on past crashes thought about bracing for falling over I was able to hold it and made it through upright. |
#15
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"Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Jeff Grippe wrote: Fun yes! I wouldn't give up my trikes for anything BUT they are not stable at high speed (at least not the one's I've had a chance to ride at high speed). The Windcheetah used for the Lands End to John o'Groats distance record in the UK was clocked at around 70 mph on some of the big descents on the course (it was fully faired, btw). No reports of particular instability AFAIK. I learned this the hard way. I was going down a hill that would have been nothing on a bike. The road was rough but nothing you would avoid. I was going 25 MPH by the time I decided that I didn't like the way the trike was handling. That is also the moment when I discovered that the effect of brake-steer is magnified at high speed. Folk regularly do *much* more than that on trikes, so it clearly isn't intrinsic to trikes, period. Same thing with brake steer: it'll very much be implementation dependent. Pete. Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you keep your speed reasonable. Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota |
#16
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On 06/08/2005 03:34:58 "Edward Dolan" wrote: Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you keep your speed reasonable. Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota LOL- Dolan the oracle, the world is ending. -- Buck I would rather be out on my Catrike www.catrike.co.uk |
#17
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Edward Dolan wrote:
Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you keep your speed reasonable. But one doesn't get pedal steer when freewheeling... These days I'm a lot happier to to do insane speeds on three wheels rather than two. -- Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ Trike Vmax current 86 km/h |
#18
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C'mon guys. This is all opinions and experience. Right and wrong aren't
really useful concepts here. In my experience with trikes including the one that some people have had up to 70 MPH, they don't handle well at high speed. Now I haven't tried every trike out there at high speed and there could be some things I don't know about riding them (yet!). That having been said I will never go back to two wheels. I've been able to climb things with my trike that I'm not sure I could walk up. I don't know if any of the tadpoles are better than any other tadpoles at high speed. I would guess that since the basic geometry is similar that they have similar handling characteristics. Probably a really long wheel base and wide front wheels would improve things. It would weigh a ton and be impossible to transport but it would be stable. Does anyone know if quads have the same stability problems? Jeff "Buck" wrote in message ... On 06/08/2005 03:34:58 "Edward Dolan" wrote: Hang in there Jeff. You are right and Peter is wrong, as he is about most everything. The fact is trikes are hard to handle at speed due to pedal steer and brake steer can be problem too. Go with your own experience and do not listen to those UK nuts. A two wheeler will always handle much better at speed than any three wheeler, but trikes are OK provided you keep your speed reasonable. Regards, Ed Dolan - Minnesota LOL- Dolan the oracle, the world is ending. -- Buck I would rather be out on my Catrike www.catrike.co.uk |
#19
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On 06/08/2005 10:35:15 "Jeff Grippe" jeff@door7 wrote: C'mon guys. This is all opinions and experience. Right and wrong aren't really useful concepts here. In my experience with trikes including the one that some people have had up to 70 MPH, they don't handle well at high speed. Now I haven't tried every trike out there at high speed and there could be some things I don't know about riding them (yet!). That having been said I will never go back to two wheels. I've been able to climb things with my trike that I'm not sure I could walk up. I don't know if any of the tadpoles are better than any other tadpoles at high speed. I would guess that since the basic geometry is similar that they have similar handling characteristics. Probably a really long wheel base and wide front wheels would improve things. It would weigh a ton and be impossible to transport but it would be stable. Does anyone know if quads have the same stability problems? Quads are usually very heavy, The steering issue with Catrike Speed stems from it having direct steering, the 2003 model did have a lot of pedal and brake steer but this has been dialed out with the new frame geometry, the Windcheetah likewise requires little steering input to affect large changes in course, the answer to that problem is experience. You get pedal steer on two wheel bents as well as trikes, it is down to not having a smooth cadence, there are trikes around with slower steering, the Trice, Greenspeed and the new Catrike Road all use indirect steering for more touring orientated trikes and as such require more steering input to affect direction. I ride a Speed and often exceed 50mph with no problems at all and anyone who has ridden in England will tell you we do not have the best surfaces in the world, but I do have a huge mileage behind me. -- Buck I would rather be out on my Catrike www.catrike.co.uk |
#20
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Ron Teplitz wrote:
I've gone over sideways four times in the 10 years that I've had my Lightning Stealth. When an SWB's front wheel slides out, you go down fast. Ususally I just get road rash on the forearm that hits the street. The most recent time I did this, was going in a straight line at about 12 mph, rode into a small patch of gravel. Went down, landed badly and broke a leg. Am re-evaluating my choice of bikes. Is an SWB any more likely than some other kind of 2-wheel bent (or a wedgie) to lose control on a patch of gravel in the street? Opinions? Experiences? Ron I have one SWB I bought about a year ago, and have test-rode a few other SWB's and other two-wheelers as well. I notice this too on mine, when I ride through somewhat-deep gravel the front wheel creeps/slides left-and-right, even though I hold the steering in a straight line. And this gravel would be NOTHING on a upright road or MTB, so I think it is caused by heavily-loaded small front wheels. On a couple test-rides, I have slightly felt the other recumbent bikes (that I did not buy) do the same thing. And of course braking makes that problem even worse. Also I notice that most-all recumbents (at least, the ones with small front wheels that I rode) could not be ridden hands-free. So I think a tiny front wheel just does not stabilize as well as a big wheel does. ,,,, And I kind of like the Rans crank-forwad bikes. But the first year they came out, they had a little 20" wheel on the front, but Rans changed that to a big wheel. Coincidence? I think not. ---- My SWB is a 20/26", by the by. ---- ....I would suggest a LWB or a CLWB, I want to buy another bent for guests to ride on but would not get another SWB for that, I would get a LWB or CLWB. The longer bikes feel much more stable overall, the SWB's are very jittery. Some people could get on mine and ride it quickly (with platform pedals on it) but they wandered around a lot, because of the lack of steering stability. ----- I think the "most-stable" recumbent would be a LWB with big wheels, 700's or 26's. At least one company makes one [I don't recall who, but I've seen their website ], maybe two companies doing it but not very many though. --Or, one could I suppose get a regular small-front-wheel LWB and try putting a long fork and big wheel on the front.... ? Some people do this to turn a "general-purpose" SWB into a high-racer. |
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