2008 Novara Strada opinions?

On Feb 21, 9:31 am, Art Harris wrote:
Woland99 wrote:
touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

Bah, it's still a Mavic. Ride it till it cracks, then rerim with an
Alex or Sun Ringle rim.

Art Harris wrote:
Woland99 wrote:
touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?


Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket" to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what a
socket is:

http://www.performancebike.com/produ...0-NCL-SIDE.jpg


art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. it's
all a matter of proportion.

here's a better picture - without the burrs that make the individual rim
components appear thicker than they really are.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/121453841/

given that the web between the two braking surfaces is the thinnest part
of the whole extrusion, the "contribution to strength" that this
makes to the double-eyelet equation is minimal. there is therefore no
reason why a properly designed single eyelet rim cannot be just as
strong. and it won't carry extra weight of unnecessary hardware.



I like Randonee b/c I had very good experience with local REI shop
and it seems it has somewhat lower gears than others: 48/36/26 and
11/32 9spd. Altho I am not sure if those numbers are really
meaningful without length of cranks.

Those are really low gears. Crank length has a pretty small effect,
usually only varying by a couple of mm.

Art Harris

The anonymous "jim beam" wrote:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. *there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. *it's
all a matter of proportion.


I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces, there
is less chance of cracking and pull through. The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

Art Harris

Art Harris writes:

art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. Â*there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet
rims, other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim
cavity. Â*it's all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but
socketed Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,
there is less chance of cracking and pull through. The only way
around that (with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the
rim thickness (i.e., increase weight).

The difference arises from the stress distribution that spoke sockets
give by their nearly two fold larger diameter on the inner rim bed
than an eyelet has on the outer wall... both surfaces bearing spoke
loads on a socketed rim. Of course your experience is more telling as
is mine of riding socketed rims until the braking surface is worn out,
while never having a cracked rim with high spoke tension.

Jobst Brandt

landotter Wrote:
On Feb 21, 9:31 am, Art Harris wrote:
Woland99 wrote:
touring bike idea. Novara Randonee comes with Mavic A319S - are
those somewhat better than R500?

Yes, and I think the wheels have 36 spokes. My only reservation on
the
A319S is that I think it uses a single eylet instead of a "socket"
to
support the spoke nipple. You're going to need a good amount of
spoke
tension to keep the wheels true, and the single eyelet may result in
the rim cracking and the spoke pulling through. A socket spreads the
spoke tension over both surfaces of the rim. The Mavic A719 uses
sockets. Here's a picture of a Mavic Open Pro rim to illustrate what
a
socket is:

Bah, it's still a Mavic. Ride it till it cracks, then rerim with an
Alex or Sun Ringle rim.
I agree, just make sure you start with a rim that has the same ERD as
the Alex DM 18 or Adventurer.
Surly LHT comes with Adventurer rims. The Stainless Steel Eyelet (no
socket to connect to the inner rim wall) works fine in this well
engineered and well made rim.
At this stage, Mavic has the best marketing, but Alex has very good
product value.
I think the OP would be best served by LHT if his REI will order him
one and give him his member discount. The complete bicycle is a well
specified package that is very difficult to beat for value. It is very
suitable for heavy riders and will handle most any riding condition.
I have no connection to REI, Alex, or Surly. OK, I used to work for
REI and I still shop there and have a good relationship especially with
the Bike Shop folks in my local REI.


--
daveornee

Art Harris wrote:
The anonymous "jim beam" wrote:
art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. �there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. �it's
all a matter of proportion.


I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

1. they're different alloys.
2. they're different proportions.



Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,

it's not "obvious" - that's the jobstian supposition. look at how thin
is that web on the cosmos rim. do you think that can carry the same
load as the other [thicker] part of the rim?


there
is less chance of cracking and pull through.

like this?
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~davidwgreen/rimpics/2.JPG


The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

what weight are all those [steel] sockets?

look at all the high end pre-built wheels. mavic don't use
double-eyelets. shimano don't use double-eyelets, even campy don't use
double-eyelets iirc. think about that.

On Feb 22, 10:15 am, Art Harris wrote:
The anonymous "jim beam" wrote:



art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. it's
all a matter of proportion.

I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

Is the crapitude of the MA-3 to be blamed on the eyelet--or is the
strength of the Open Pro due to the socketed construction overcoming
the limitations of the ****ty alloy Mavic employs?

"jim beam" wrote:
Art Harris wrote:
The anonymous "jim beam" wrote:
art, with respect, you're propagating jobstian supposition. �there
really isn't anything particularly superior about double-eyelet rims,
other than that you can't drop spoke nipples into the rim cavity. �it's
all a matter of proportion.


I disagree. For example the single-eyelet Mavic MA-3 at 480g was
notorious for cracked rims and spokes pulling through. Yet I don't
recall any cases of spokes pulling through on the lighter but socketed
Mavic Open Pro (435g).

1. they're different alloys.
2. they're different proportions.



Obviously, when spoke tension is distributed over two surfaces,

it's not "obvious" - that's the jobstian supposition. look at how thin
is that web on the cosmos rim. do you think that can carry the same
load as the other [thicker] part of the rim?


there
is less chance of cracking and pull through.

like this?
http://web.onetel.net.uk/~davidwgreen/rimpics/2.JPG


The only way around that
(with single eyelets) is to significantly beef up the rim thickness
(i.e., increase weight).

what weight are all those [steel] sockets?

look at all the high end pre-built wheels. mavic don't use
double-eyelets. shimano don't use double-eyelets, even campy don't use
double-eyelets iirc. think about that.

Are not all those wheels mostly sold to the "gram counting" types?
Bragging rights about light weight and looking good at the coffee shop
are more important than durability for some riders.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful