Wheel Lacing question

I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model.. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark

On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark

I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths.
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process.
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark
I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths.
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process.
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.
Thanks Mark j I just needed someone with brains thinking it through and it makes sense. I am grasping. I really need a rim with same ERD not anything close enough that is a regular road rim.

Deacon Mark

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 2:44:42 PM UTC-7, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark
I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths.
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process..
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.
Thanks Mark j I just needed someone with brains thinking it through and it makes sense. I am grasping. I really need a rim with same ERD not anything close enough that is a regular road rim.

Deacon Mark

Buy a new wheel. It is your duty as am American. BTW, you can use a 24 hole rim and and a 32 spoke hub, but not 28 -- at least according to the bizarre wheel gods on the interweb. I've never done it.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 6:35:24 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Buy a new wheel. It is your duty as am American. BTW, you can use a 24 hole rim and and a 32 spoke hub, but not 28 -- at least according to the bizarre wheel gods on the interweb. I've never done it.

I've gone as far as doing CAD drawings to see about lacing wheels to hubs with mismatched
hole counts. I never progressed to trying it with actual hardware because the CAD drawings showed
me the job was not a good idea. Lots of different spoke lengths, complex patterns, and probably
very dissimilar tensions. I concur with Jay. Buy a wheel. Keep the spokes, etc. for future projects.

- Frank Krygowski

On 10/13/2020 2:44 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark
I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths.
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process.
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.
Thanks Mark j I just needed someone with brains thinking it through and it makes sense. I am grasping. I really need a rim with same ERD not anything close enough that is a regular road rim.

Deacon Mark

Is the Kinlin model you have discontinued?

Mark J.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 12:24:51 -0700, Mark Cleary wrote:

I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern
and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the
exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same
spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work.
Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is
there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark

You need to refer to a wheel spoke chart.

Having tried to reuse spokes in the past when replacing rims, I just
found it a whole easier to go out and buy a new set.
Cavet, finding a shop that actually sells bulk spokes.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 6:31:14 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 2:44 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark
I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths..
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process.
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.
Thanks Mark j I just needed someone with brains thinking it through and it makes sense. I am grasping. I really need a rim with same ERD not anything close enough that is a regular road rim.

Deacon Mark

Is the Kinlin model you have discontinued?

Mark J.
yes or at least out of sight I can order new one but overseas is $80 shipping for $40 rim

Deacon mark

On 10/13/2020 6:33 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 6:31:14 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 2:44 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:32:48 PM UTC-5, Mark J. wrote:
On 10/13/2020 12:24 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
I have a bad 28 hole kinlin rim on rear wheel. This is 2 cross pattern and spoke lengths are 279 and 282. I have a good 24 hole rim of the exact model. Can I somehow re-lace this this 2 cross rim with the same spokes. I am thinking outside the box if there is a way it can work. Seems I will have to skip 2 holes I assume one on each side of hub. Is there a way this would work fine and build the wheel?

Deacon Mark
I'm sympathetic to the desire to "make do" with imperfect options, and I
have kludged/bodged/jerry-rigged quite a bit in my lifetime, but:
I'm sorry to say I believe this is a bad idea.

1) A crude estimate using a spoke calculator (and just a hair better
than a wild-ass-guess) says the 24 needs spokes that are 3mm longer than
the 28, which is pushing it unless the original spokes were 1-2mm too long.

2) But that's to rebuild using a 24-hole hub. Using a 28-hole hub and
skipping selected holes means you'll need a *variety* of spoke lengths.
The best you could hope for is that all the needed lengths fell close
to the spokes you have; my guess is that the extremes won't - quite
possibly only one extreme will come close and the other extreme will be
way off.

3) It *can* be done, I've read about examples, but I wouldn't call it an
entry-level experiment. The uneven spoke lengths will tend to make the
tensioning process difficult; it will be hard to figure out how much to
thread each spoke to get even tension, so "wildly uneven" is the likely
starting point, making for a long and tedious tension-balancing process.
And that's assuming some of the spokes don't end up unuseably long or
short.

Sounds to me like the cheapest solution is a new 28-hole rim. Sorry to
discourage you.

Mark J.
Thanks Mark j I just needed someone with brains thinking it through and it makes sense. I am grasping. I really need a rim with same ERD not anything close enough that is a regular road rim.

Deacon Mark

Is the Kinlin model you have discontinued?

Mark J.
yes or at least out of sight I can order new one but overseas is $80 shipping for $40 rim

Deacon mark


For that kind of money you could just ride over to your LBS,
buy a quality American made rim and pocket the difference.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971