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  #61  
Old January 13th 19, 04:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,973
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing is

cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.


What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.


Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.


Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #62  
Old January 13th 19, 11:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:56:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing is

cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.


Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.


Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The trouble with socialist economies is that you cannot advance. Hence corruption is everywhere and is assumed to be just another part of life. Sort of the same view as the Democrat Party. Only a sucker wouldn't get his share..
  #63  
Old January 14th 19, 02:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 14:24:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:56:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing

is
cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.

Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.


Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The trouble with socialist economies is that you cannot advance. Hence corruption is everywhere and is assumed to be just another part of life. Sort of the same view as the Democrat Party. Only a sucker wouldn't get his share.


What "cannot advance"?

Ho Chi Minh advanced from a kitchen helper to (effectively) King of
Vietnam. V Nguyn Gip went from a school teacher to chief of the
Vietnamese military. Mao Zedong helped on his father's farm and ended
as the chairman of the Chinese communist party. Even Stalin was a
meteorologist at a Tiflis observatory and ended up as the Dictator of
Russia.

Tom, you ought not to talk about things about which you appear to know
nothing.


Cheers,
John B.


  #64  
Old January 14th 19, 03:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,380
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:24:46 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:54:04 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies.. Their whole thing is cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation.. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.


Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.


I got a haircut on Friday afternoon and my barber used to be a South Vietnamese government official. I told him what you said and he used a word that means "Eat ****". He said that the agreement was that the North would cease their invasion of the South and that the US would provide air support and military supplies to the South Vietnamese to maintain the status quo.
Not only did the North not even slow up the continuous invasion but that the US did absolutely nothing.

I would suggest you come down here and discuss it with him but he wields a mean straight razor.


Why? I can read the Paris Peace Accord. It's cut and dried. North Vietnam did not surrender. South Vietnam did not occupy or police North Vietnam. North Vietnam did not pay reparations. There was no treaty. North Vietnam violated a cease fire.

Article 2

A cease fire shall be observed throughout South Viet-Nam as of 2400 hours GMT on January 27th 1973. At the same hour, the United States will stop all its military activities against the territory of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam by ground, air and naval forces, wherever they may be based, and end the mining of the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The United States will remove, permanently deactivate or destroy all the mines in the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of North Vietnam as soon as this Agreement goes into effect. The complete cessation of hostilities mentioned in this Article shall be durable and without limit of time…

Article 4

The United States will not continue its military involvement or intervene in the internal affairs of South Vietnam.

Article 5

Within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement, there will be a total withdrawal from South Vietnam of troops, military advisers, and military personnel including technical military personnel and military personnel associated with the pacification program, armaments, munitions, and war material of the United States and those of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a). Advisers from the above-mentioned countries to all paramilitary organisations and the police force will also be withdrawn within the same period of time.

Article 6

The dismantlement of all military bases in South Vietnam of the United States and of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a) shall be completed within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement…

Article 8

(a) The return of captured military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties shall be carried out simultaneously with and completed not later than the same day as the troop withdrawal mentioned in Article 5. The parties shall exchange complete lists of the above-mentioned captured military personnel and foreign civilians on the day of the signing of this Agreement.

(b) The Parties shall help each other to get information about those military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties missing in action, to determine the location and take care of the graves of the dead so as to facilitate the exhumation and repatriation of the remains…

Article 11

Immediately after the ceasefire, the two South Vietnamese parties will achieve national reconciliation and concord, end hatred and enmity, prohibit all acts of reprisal and discrimination against individuals or organisations that have collaborated with one side or the other… ensure the democratic liberties of the people: personal freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of meeting, freedom of organisation, freedom of political activities, freedom of belief, freedom of movement, freedom of residence, freedom of work, right to property ownership, and right to free enterprise…

Article 15

The reunification of Vietnam shall be carried out step by step through peaceful means on the basis of discussions and agreements between North and South Vietnam, without coercion or annexation by either party, and without foreign interference. The time for reunification will be agreed upon by North and South Vietnam…

Article 21

The United States anticipates that this Agreement will usher in an era of reconciliation with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam as with all the peoples of Indochina. In pursuance of its traditional policy, the United States will contribute to healing the wounds of war and to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and throughout Indochina.

Article 22

The ending of the war, the restoration of peace in Viet-Nam, and the strict implementation of this Agreement will create conditions for establishing a new, equal and mutually beneficial relationship between the United States and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam on the basis of respect of each other’s independence and sovereignty, and non-interference in each other’s internal affairs.”


Blah, blah, blah . . . cease fire; we get our prisoners and . . . we're out of here!

-- Jay Beattie.




  #65  
Old January 14th 19, 11:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,458
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 1:18:35 AM UTC, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 14:24:53 -0800 (PST), Tom wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:56:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing

is
cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.

Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.

Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The trouble with socialist economies is that you cannot advance. Hence corruption is everywhere and is assumed to be just another part of life. Sort of the same view as the Democrat Party. Only a sucker wouldn't get his share.


What "cannot advance"?

Ho Chi Minh advanced from a kitchen helper to (effectively) King of
Vietnam. Võ Nguyên Giáp went from a school teacher to chief of the
Vietnamese military. Mao Zedong helped on his father's farm and ended
as the chairman of the Chinese communist party. Even Stalin was a
meteorologist at a Tiflis observatory and ended up as the Dictator of
Russia.

Tom, you ought not to talk about things about which you appear to know
nothing.


Cheers,
John B.


You are either a very obtuse little man, Slow Johnny, or you are mindlessly arguing against anything and everything Tom says because it is Tom saying it. It is one characteristic of the sadistic bullies on the net, like you and Krygowski, that, once they get their teeth into someone, they do not let go. And this is a fine example of that tendency.

Even you should be able to distinguish, say, the United States where anyone can rise into the middle classes at any time regardless of who else has risen previously, from the Soviet Union and its Asian workalikes where, as soon as the one man you name rose to a commanding position, all other avenues were violently closed. They killed the doctors and school teachers and journalists, in short the intellectuals, so that there should be no other leadership, and not higher class for anyone else to rise to. Here, for instance, is Martyn Latsis, speaking -- to members of what would later be known in the West as the KGB -- for Feliks Dzerzhinsk who had a throat infection (if you don't know who they are, you shouldn't be writing about Stalin), explaining Cheka extermination policy:
****
"‘We are not carrying out a war against individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. We aren’t looking for evidence or witnesses to reveal deeds or words against Soviet power. The first question we ask is—to what class does he belong, what are his origins, upbringing, education, profession? These questions define the fate of the accused. This is the essence of Red Terror.’

Luki told Larissa, ‘Under that definition the first one to be shot would be Lenin.‘"
****
The above is an extract from my novel TERRORS but the quotation is letter-perfectly correct, referenced in umpteen primary and secondary sources.

If you can't distinguish a zero-sum game with one's life as the penalty for even trying from opportunities permanently open to all the talents, you shouldn't pretend even to a blunt workman's wisdom. But yet you do. Since you do, you must be malicious when you pull a silly stunt like this one.

Andre Jute
Telling it like it is
  #66  
Old January 15th 19, 01:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:30:19 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:



You are either a very obtuse little man, Slow Johnny,


Umm, didn't you say that you ignored "slow johhny".


  #67  
Old January 16th 19, 04:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 5:18:35 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 14:24:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:56:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing

is
cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.

Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.

Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The trouble with socialist economies is that you cannot advance. Hence corruption is everywhere and is assumed to be just another part of life. Sort of the same view as the Democrat Party. Only a sucker wouldn't get his share.


What "cannot advance"?

Ho Chi Minh advanced from a kitchen helper to (effectively) King of
Vietnam. Võ Nguyên Giáp went from a school teacher to chief of the
Vietnamese military. Mao Zedong helped on his father's farm and ended
as the chairman of the Chinese communist party. Even Stalin was a
meteorologist at a Tiflis observatory and ended up as the Dictator of
Russia.

Tom, you ought not to talk about things about which you appear to know
nothing.


Cheers,
John B.


You think of that as "advancing" do you? So you're just another of those little socialists that were afraid to come back to this country because you were well aware that here you'd have to try and you knew that you'd fail.
  #68  
Old January 16th 19, 04:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 6:01:06 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:24:46 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:54:04 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing is cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.


I got a haircut on Friday afternoon and my barber used to be a South Vietnamese government official. I told him what you said and he used a word that means "Eat ****". He said that the agreement was that the North would cease their invasion of the South and that the US would provide air support and military supplies to the South Vietnamese to maintain the status quo.
Not only did the North not even slow up the continuous invasion but that the US did absolutely nothing.

I would suggest you come down here and discuss it with him but he wields a mean straight razor.


Why? I can read the Paris Peace Accord. It's cut and dried. North Vietnam did not surrender. South Vietnam did not occupy or police North Vietnam. North Vietnam did not pay reparations. There was no treaty. North Vietnam violated a cease fire.

Article 2

A cease fire shall be observed throughout South Viet-Nam as of 2400 hours GMT on January 27th 1973. At the same hour, the United States will stop all its military activities against the territory of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam by ground, air and naval forces, wherever they may be based, and end the mining of the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The United States will remove, permanently deactivate or destroy all the mines in the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of North Vietnam as soon as this Agreement goes into effect. The complete cessation of hostilities mentioned in this Article shall be durable and without limit of time…

Article 4

The United States will not continue its military involvement or intervene in the internal affairs of South Vietnam.

Article 5

Within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement, there will be a total withdrawal from South Vietnam of troops, military advisers, and military personnel including technical military personnel and military personnel associated with the pacification program, armaments, munitions, and war material of the United States and those of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a). Advisers from the above-mentioned countries to all paramilitary organisations and the police force will also be withdrawn within the same period of time.

Article 6

The dismantlement of all military bases in South Vietnam of the United States and of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a) shall be completed within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement…

Article 8

(a) The return of captured military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties shall be carried out simultaneously with and completed not later than the same day as the troop withdrawal mentioned in Article 5. The parties shall exchange complete lists of the above-mentioned captured military personnel and foreign civilians on the day of the signing of this Agreement.

(b) The Parties shall help each other to get information about those military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties missing in action, to determine the location and take care of the graves of the dead so as to facilitate the exhumation and repatriation of the remains…

Article 11

Immediately after the ceasefire, the two South Vietnamese parties will achieve national reconciliation and concord, end hatred and enmity, prohibit all acts of reprisal and discrimination against individuals or organisations that have collaborated with one side or the other… ensure the democratic liberties of the people: personal freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of meeting, freedom of organisation, freedom of political activities, freedom of belief, freedom of movement, freedom of residence, freedom of work, right to property ownership, and right to free enterprise…

Article 15

The reunification of Vietnam shall be carried out step by step through peaceful means on the basis of discussions and agreements between North and South Vietnam, without coercion or annexation by either party, and without foreign interference. The time for reunification will be agreed upon by North and South Vietnam…

Article 21

The United States anticipates that this Agreement will usher in an era of reconciliation with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam as with all the peoples of Indochina. In pursuance of its traditional policy, the United States will contribute to healing the wounds of war and to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and throughout Indochina.

Article 22

The ending of the war, the restoration of peace in Viet-Nam, and the strict implementation of this Agreement will create conditions for establishing a new, equal and mutually beneficial relationship between the United States and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam on the basis of respect of each other’s independence and sovereignty, and non-interference in each other’s internal affairs.”


Blah, blah, blah . . . cease fire; we get our prisoners and . . . we're out of here!

-- Jay Beattie.


Yeah, we have you second most dangerous city in the country. That's saying a lot when you have Chicago and Detroit.
  #69  
Old January 16th 19, 04:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 2:30:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 1:18:35 AM UTC, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 14:24:53 -0800 (PST), Tom wrote:

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 7:56:50 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2019 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:51:32 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:54:04 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing

is
cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

What's your problem, Jay? I didn't say North Vietnam surrendered.

Just wanted to recap after the winding ride though commie-pinkos, Antifa, Germans who are poor house guests, omni-directional hate for Western civilization, cats and dogs, living together, etc. I think we're all in agreement that North Vietnam didn't surrender. Just trying to establish some common ground in these divisive times.

Such a wonderful group of guys, too:
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM

kumbaya indeed.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The trouble with socialist economies is that you cannot advance. Hence corruption is everywhere and is assumed to be just another part of life. Sort of the same view as the Democrat Party. Only a sucker wouldn't get his share.


What "cannot advance"?

Ho Chi Minh advanced from a kitchen helper to (effectively) King of
Vietnam. Võ Nguyên Giáp went from a school teacher to chief of the
Vietnamese military. Mao Zedong helped on his father's farm and ended
as the chairman of the Chinese communist party. Even Stalin was a
meteorologist at a Tiflis observatory and ended up as the Dictator of
Russia.

Tom, you ought not to talk about things about which you appear to know
nothing.


Cheers,
John B.


You are either a very obtuse little man, Slow Johnny, or you are mindlessly arguing against anything and everything Tom says because it is Tom saying it. It is one characteristic of the sadistic bullies on the net, like you and Krygowski, that, once they get their teeth into someone, they do not let go. And this is a fine example of that tendency.

Even you should be able to distinguish, say, the United States where anyone can rise into the middle classes at any time regardless of who else has risen previously, from the Soviet Union and its Asian workalikes where, as soon as the one man you name rose to a commanding position, all other avenues were violently closed. They killed the doctors and school teachers and journalists, in short the intellectuals, so that there should be no other leadership, and not higher class for anyone else to rise to. Here, for instance, is Martyn Latsis, speaking -- to members of what would later be known in the West as the KGB -- for Feliks Dzerzhinsk who had a throat infection (if you don't know who they are, you shouldn't be writing about Stalin), explaining Cheka extermination policy:
****
"‘We are not carrying out a war against individuals. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class. We aren’t looking for evidence or witnesses to reveal deeds or words against Soviet power. The first question we ask is—to what class does he belong, what are his origins, upbringing, education, profession? These questions define the fate of the accused. This is the essence of Red Terror.’

Luki told Larissa, ‘Under that definition the first one to be shot would be Lenin.‘"
****
The above is an extract from my novel TERRORS but the quotation is letter-perfectly correct, referenced in umpteen primary and secondary sources.

If you can't distinguish a zero-sum game with one's life as the penalty for even trying from opportunities permanently open to all the talents, you shouldn't pretend even to a blunt workman's wisdom. But yet you do. Since you do, you must be malicious when you pull a silly stunt like this one.

Andre Jute
Telling it like it is


I can have my hands on my sides and backhand someone with an open hand so hard that it knocks them down and so fast that even I can't see it coming. It is a totally automatic reflex for dealing with bullies. So I can assure you that these little cowards hiding behind the written word would never say anything like they do here more than once to anyone's face.

Some guy was mouthing off like leftists do here in California now and I told him what I thought of him as I was leaving. He jumped up. He had me by 2" and half again my weight so he made the mistake of thinking he was tough. He took three swings at me. I backed off the first two and warned him away. The third swing had the proprietor calling for an ambulance. And there was nothing that they could do to me since I had tried to avoid a fight. I only hit him once. And every time I went into that place all the normal people would say hi because they didn't have to put up with the likes of him anymore.

Jay is reasonable because he knows the limits of the law. But that doesn't stop him from disagreeing simply because he can. But then lawyers have to develop a sense of discord in order to become lawyers. My brother-in-law was the world's biggest asshole but in the courtroom there was no one more competent or knowledgeable so I expect Jay to be the same sort.

Frank has something wrong with him. He can't weigh stuff in a bag somehow. Two 16 oz CO2 cartridges, the filler tool, two normal tubes, superlight tire levers, a small quick patch kit (peel and stick) and a multitool weight the same the world over. Apparently he doesn't count the weight of his handlebar bag. Everyone of the rides I go on carries bags like this and they all weight more or less the same. A lot of the people don't use those plastic levers but bring along steel levers. How is it that they people have the same weight in kits as I do but Frank only carries a couple of oz?

You and Joerg are the only real riders that I can see. Perhaps Jay does but then getting a straight answer you could trust out of him would be like my brother-in-law who died because he couldn't tell the truth even to his own doctor.
  #70  
Old January 16th 19, 04:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default More Justice Department Hiding

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 4:47:11 PM UTC-8, news18 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 14:30:19 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:



You are either a very obtuse little man, Slow Johnny,


Umm, didn't you say that you ignored "slow johhny".


I don't even think Slow Johnny rides a bike. I think that he drives everywhere and simply sees Thai's riding bicycles.
 




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