tandem wheel with large spokes

I recently bought a tandem on the cheap as a fixer upper. I was able to get
it running pretty well (it is about 20-25 years old), but the rear wheel is
very noisy while riding it. I think this is due to the low spoke tension on
the left side. They really clack!

Anyway, a few of the spokes were badly rounded and/or seized, so I don't
feel that I can just back them off and re-tension them.

I would like to re-spoke the wheel but the spokes are really fat, they fit
the 11 gauge wrench on my multi-gauge spoke wrench.

Any idea on where to source new spokes?

Any ideas on whether I could fit something like DT Alpines in there with
washers? Where could I get appropriate washers? It is a 27 inch rim.

I would prefer not to just put new wheels on it since I am trying to keep
costs low, and that would open the barn door to a number of other new parts.

Thanks,
Blake

"B Paton" wrote:
I recently bought a tandem on the cheap as a fixer upper. I was able to
get
it running pretty well (it is about 20-25 years old), but the rear wheel
is
very noisy while riding it. I think this is due to the low spoke tension
on
the left side. They really clack!

Anyway, a few of the spokes were badly rounded and/or seized, so I don't
feel that I can just back them off and re-tension them.

I would like to re-spoke the wheel but the spokes are really fat, they fit
the 11 gauge wrench on my multi-gauge spoke wrench.

Any idea on where to source new spokes?

Tough call. I'd try to get at least one of the nipples off cleanly. Then,
see if a LBS can get you a supply of identical nipples and a suitable spoke
wrench (those multi-size wrenches are terrible). Then, using WD-40 or
whatever try to free up the seized nipples and replace them (after oiling
the threads).

Are the spokes stainless? If not, or if the hub or rim is of low quality,
you may be wasting time and money trying to save the wheel. Any chance the
brakes would work with 700c wheels?

Art Harris

"B Paton" wrote:

I would like to re-spoke the wheel but the spokes are really fat, they fit
the 11 gauge wrench on my multi-gauge spoke wrench.

Any idea on where to source new spokes?

What you probably have are so-called "120 gauge" (or .120" diameter)
spokes. They are common on such things as Worksman cargo bikes,
Schwinn Heavy-Duty industrial bikes, etc. There is a smaller but
still oversized spoke diameter called "105 gauge" which might be what
you have. If you can measure your spokes' diameters or else compare
them against a wire or drill bit known to be 1/8" (.125") in diameter,
you can determine which size you have.

If your area has a shop that deals in workbikes or old-fashioned
American one-speeds, they should be able to set you up. If not, try
googling "work bikes" or "cargo bikes" to find a dealer who can send
you some spokes and nipples.

I would replace all the nipples in the wheel if I were you, and
remember to lube the spoke threads.

Chalo Colina

What you probably have are so-called "120 gauge" (or .120" diameter)
spokes.

0.120-inch diameter spokes are 11-gauge.

There is a smaller but still oversized spoke diameter called
"105 gauge" which might be what you have.

0.105-inch diameter spokes are 12-gauge.

Bicycle and motorcycle spokes are sized with the Washburn & Moen wire gauge:

http://www.engineersedge.com/wire_gages.htm

(Chalo) wrote in message . com...
"B Paton" wrote:

I would like to re-spoke the wheel but the spokes are really fat, they fit
the 11 gauge wrench on my multi-gauge spoke wrench.

Any idea on where to source new spokes?

What you probably have are so-called "120 gauge" (or .120" diameter)
spokes. They are common on such things as Worksman cargo bikes,
Schwinn Heavy-Duty industrial bikes, etc. There is a smaller but
still oversized spoke diameter called "105 gauge" which might be what
you have. If you can measure your spokes' diameters or else compare
them against a wire or drill bit known to be 1/8" (.125") in diameter,
you can determine which size you have.


I'll ditto what Chalo says- if the nipples fit the "11 gauge" slot on
your wrench, they're "120 gauge". Here's a Worksman page that shows
some of their wheel "technology":
http://www.worksman.com/what_makes_t...n_mover_th.htm

I'd call Worksman and see if they'll sell you a set of spokes.

Jeff

B Paton wrote in message ...
Anyway, a few of the spokes were badly rounded and/or seized, so I don't
feel that I can just back them off and re-tension them.

PLus Gas will most likely unseize those nipples. If the spokes really are
fat, use a small pair of self locking pliers when bringing up to tension.
See my other recent postings on shaping the spokes at the crossing. This
can be done with cheap used spokes. It has no detrimental affect.

Trevor

LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h o o_d 0 t_c 0 m
wrote:

What you probably have are so-called "120 gauge" (or .120" diameter)
spokes.

0.120-inch diameter spokes are 11-gauge.

There is a smaller but still oversized spoke diameter called
"105 gauge" which might be what you have.

0.105-inch diameter spokes are 12-gauge.

Right, and "alloy" outside the bicycle world doesn't necessarily mean
aluminum. But if you go to a bike dealer who has "120 gauge" spokes
and ask for 11 gauge, chances are he won't know what you are talking
about.

Since the dimensions implied by gauge numbers vary according to
whether the material in question is wire or sheet (and what kind of
material it is), just using the dimensional size works much better,
misuse of the term "gauge" notwithstanding.

The following link provides a glimpse of the basic problem with gauge
measurements:
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/gage.html

Chalo Colina

LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h o o_d 0 t_c 0 m
wrote:

What you probably have are so-called "120 gauge" (or .120" diameter)
spokes.

0.120-inch diameter spokes are 11-gauge.

There is a smaller but still oversized spoke diameter called
"105 gauge" which might be what you have.

0.105-inch diameter spokes are 12-gauge.

Right, and "alloy" outside the bicycle world doesn't necessarily mean
aluminum. But if you go to a bike dealer who has "120 gauge" spokes
and ask for 11 gauge, chances are he won't know what you are talking
about.

Since the dimensions implied by gauge numbers vary according to
whether the material in question is wire or sheet (and what kind of
material it is), just using the dimensional size works much better,
misuse of the term "gauge" notwithstanding.

The following link provides a glimpse of the basic problem with gauge
measurements:
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/gage.html

Chalo Colina

B Paton Wrote:
I recently bought a tandem on the cheap as a fixer upper. I was able to
get
it running pretty well (it is about 20-25 years old), but the rear
wheel is
very noisy while riding it. I think this is due to the low spoke
tension on
the left side. They really clack!

Anyway, a few of the spokes were badly rounded and/or seized, so I
don't
feel that I can just back them off and re-tension them.

I would like to re-spoke the wheel but the spokes are really fat, they
fit
the 11 gauge wrench on my multi-gauge spoke wrench.

Any idea on where to source new spokes?

Any ideas on whether I could fit something like DT Alpines in there
with
washers? Where could I get appropriate washers? It is a 27 inch rim.

I would prefer not to just put new wheels on it since I am trying to
keep
costs low, and that would open the barn door to a number of other new
parts.

Thanks,
Blake

I would stay with the spokes you have and get new nipples for them all
around.
DT Alpine III spokes have a greater distance from elbow to head than
all other current DT spokes... and to make things worse, the spoke head
washers DT brings into the USA only fit their 2.0 and 1.8 mm diameter
spokes... if you are in a country that can source them, they are the
ones with the 2.5 mm diameter holes. I just wouldn't spend the money
on them for your wheel. Even if you could get ideal washers, the spoke
hole diameter and the distortions caused by your current spokes would
not make for a durable wheel using DT Alipine III spokes.

If you are really pushing for a Stainless Steel 2.3 mm diameter spoke
at the hub end, you could consider the Sapim Strong or the Wheelsmith
DH. I don't think that they would be an improvement in strength or
durability over your existing spokes however.
The lubrication talked about should also be applied to the nipple seat
of the rim holes, where more friction takes place.


--
daveornee

"alloy" outside the bicycle world doesn't necessarily mean aluminum

Relevance??

if you go to a bike dealer who has "120 gauge" spokes and ask for
11 gauge, chances are he won't know what you are talking about.

The cretins at the LBS here don't even know a "spanner" when they're
holding one, let alone "11-gauge" spokes; but I can't imagine why their
ignorance should extend itself to anyone else, least of all me, and I
assure you that it does not.

the dimensions implied by gauge numbers vary according to
whether the material in question is wire or sheet

We're talking about spokes here, so which do you suppose it is, hmm?

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)