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#11
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weisse- No change for Campy? They made my Shimano operate much better.
Braking performance is greatly improved. Shifting is crisper on drops and easier on increases. BRBR Whatever. We have installed it on shimano and Campagnolo bikes and it just changed the looks of it all. No difference in performance when compared to good and new der and brake housing, IMHO. Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302 (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene" |
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#12
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Heisse Luft (aka Hot Air) writes:
No change for Campy? They made my Shimano operate much better. Braking performance is greatly improved. Shifting is crisper on drops and easier on increases. To what do you attribute this perceived improvement? There must be some obvious difference. Besides, crisper is a nice word for potato(e) chips but can you reduce that to shifting in functional terms? As I said, I see no reason why this housing should have any functional advantages. Even the latest Shimano brake housing is spiral wound. The Nokon housing is much stiffer in compression, leading to a firmer feel. You'll have to demonstrate first that steel cable housing is more compressible, or for that matter that it has perceptible compression. Are we talking about shift cables or brake cables? With brakes it is the calipers and pads that flex, not the old bugaboo of cable stretch that keeps getting repeated. Shifting requires so little cable tension that compression is not an issue. Bicycling is full of myth and lore and riders regale in its repetition. The only weakness is the plating which soon wears off. Its best to cover the segments that will be under the bar tape with clear heatshrink. Use 3/16" clear all the way to the shifter/levers. If you cover the entire length of the housings with heatshrink, you will extend the life and keep them clean. It adds a tiny bit of weight but its worth it. You mean anodizing. I thought that was a feature because it can be colored to match your shoes or jersey. If you have any segments touching carbon fiber (bars, stem etc), using the heatshrink is a must otherwise the aluminum will eventally dissolve. From what do you draw this conclusion? This sounds like new bicycle lore. Fill me in on its origin. Jobst Brandt |
#14
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wrote:
Where are the benefits other than claiming to save weight for weight watchers? Apparently, Nokon cables don't even save any weight: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=cables A flaw I see with the Nokon housings is that because they are made up of individual segments, they have virtually no bending stiffness, so it is relatively easy to put a kink in the inner cable. However, they do have an interesting aesthetic, for those who are into that kind of thing. Mark McMaster |
#15
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Mark McMaster writes:
Where are the benefits other than claiming to save weight for weight watchers? Apparently, Nokon cables don't even save any weight: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=cables A flaw I see with the Nokon housings is that because they are made up of individual segments, they have virtually no bending stiffness, so it is relatively easy to put a kink in the inner cable. However, they do have an interesting aesthetic, for those who are into that kind of thing. I hope the patent office didn't allow them a patent because this string of beads on a cable is an old concept for controls. Making some of the beads longer than others is not novel enough for patent protection. Jobst Brandt |
#16
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 01:18:21 GMT,
wrote: Mark McMaster writes: Where are the benefits other than claiming to save weight for weight watchers? Apparently, Nokon cables don't even save any weight: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=cables A flaw I see with the Nokon housings is that because they are made up of individual segments, they have virtually no bending stiffness, so it is relatively easy to put a kink in the inner cable. However, they do have an interesting aesthetic, for those who are into that kind of thing. I hope the patent office didn't allow them a patent because this string of beads on a cable is an old concept for controls. Making some of the beads longer than others is not novel enough for patent protection. Jobst Brandt Dear Jobst, I count four patents on their web site: http://www.nokonusa.com/NokonUSA_Home.htm Car Fogel |
#17
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wrote in message ... Mark McMaster writes: Where are the benefits other than claiming to save weight for weight watchers? Apparently, Nokon cables don't even save any weight: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=cables A flaw I see with the Nokon housings is that because they are made up of individual segments, they have virtually no bending stiffness, so it is relatively easy to put a kink in the inner cable. However, they do have an interesting aesthetic, for those who are into that kind of thing. I hope the patent office didn't allow them a patent because this string of beads on a cable is an old concept for controls. Making some of the beads longer than others is not novel enough for patent protection. I presume it depends where they where filed whether an automatic search was done. Even so, the patent office is there to raise revenue, so is not overly concerned whether or not the application would stand should it need to be challenged in court. I expect the market not to be large enough for those who own Nokon patent, if it exists, to be worth fighting over. If they matched the price of common or garden Bowden wire and had the facilities to produce for everybody, then it would be worth fighting, except Jobst reckons it previously existed. I'd advise anyone to think a dozen times before starting a patent application. Once it is in the public domain, you need to be able to protect your idea and without backing, the patent may fall by the wayside. Trevor |
#18
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writes:
Where are the benefits other than claiming to save weight for weight watchers? Apparently, Nokon cables don't even save any weight: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=cables A flaw I see with the Nokon housings is that because they are made up of individual segments, they have virtually no bending stiffness, so it is relatively easy to put a kink in the inner cable. However, they do have an interesting aesthetic, for those who are into that kind of thing. I hope the patent office didn't allow them a patent because this string of beads on a cable is an old concept for controls. Making some of the beads longer than others is not novel enough for patent protection. I count four patents on their web site: http://www.nokonusa.com/NokonUSA_Home.htm I doubt that they cover anything useful and are probably not dependable if challenged, much like Rolf wheel patents that fell apart when examined. Lovelace patented the paired spoke wheel in 1890. Jobst Brandt |
#19
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:59:43 GMT,
wrote: I doubt that they cover anything useful and are probably not dependable if challenged, much like Rolf wheel patents that fell apart when examined. Lovelace patented the paired spoke wheel in 1890. Jobst Brandt Patent no. 6,606,921 is he http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,606,921 or http://tinyurl.com/55pba And patent no. 6,250,175 he http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,250,175 or http://tinyurl.com/6g2kc ================================================== ============== From 6,606,921: What is claimed as new and desired to be protected by Letters Patent is set forth in the appended claims: 1. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: an axially movable cable for transmitting a tensile force; a flexible tube for receiving said cable for axial movement of said cable therein; and a casing surrounding said tube for absorbing a pressure force, said cable being axially movable relative to said tube and said casing, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts having abutting end faces between adjacent form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along arcuate paths, said form-parts being stringed on and traversed by said tube, said tube having an outside diameter that is equivalent to a smallest inside diameter of said form-parts. 2. The cable system of claim 1, wherein, for each of said form-parts, one of said end faces thereof has a concave configuration and the other one of said end faces thereof has a convex configuration. 3. The cable system of claim 1, wherein a first set of said form-parts is alternately joined to a second set of said form-parts, said first set of form-parts having opposite convex end faces, said second set of form-parts having opposite end faces, each having one of a concave shape and an annular shape. 4. The cable system of claim 3, wherein each of said first set of form-parts has an inside dimension corresponding to a cross section of said tube, said passageway in said second set of said form-parts having an inside dimension exceeding said cross section of said tube. 5. The cable system of claim 1, wherein said tube is made of plastic. 6. The cable system of claim 1, wherein said form-parts are made of a material selected from the group consisting of plastic and ceramic. 7. The cable system of claim 1, wherein fittings secure said casing at opposite ends of a frame assembly. 8. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force; a flexible tube for accommodating the cable; and a casing surrounding said tube for absorbing a pressure force, said cable being axially movable relative to said tube and said casing, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts having abutting end faces between successive form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along an arcuate path, said tube having an outside dimension corresponding to an inside dimension of the passageway, each of said form parts having an interior recess forming a section of said axial passageway with an interior dimension with a diameter exceeding that of the tube for creating a space for compensatory movement of said tube within said axial passageway when the cable therein transmits a tensile force. 9. The cable system of claim 8, wherein said form-parts have opposite end faces, one of the end faces thereof has a concave configuration and the other one of said faces thereof has a convex configuration. 10. The cable system of claim 8, wherein a first set of the form-parts is alternately joined to a second set of the form-parts, with said first set of form-parts having opposite end faces of convex configuration, and with said second set of form-parts having opposite end faces of a configuration selected from the group consisting of a concave shape and an annular shape. 11. The cable system of claim 8, wherein said tube is made of plastic. 12. The cable system of claim 8, wherein said form-parts are made of a material selected from the group consisting of glidable plastic and ceramic. 13. A pull cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force; and a casing surrounding said cable for absorbing a pressure force, said cable being axially movable relative to said casing, said casing being composed of a plurality of form-parts joined to one another in end-to-end disposition to form a continuous axial passageway, each of said form-parts having a circumferential cylindrical collar centrally located thereon, said form-parts having abutting end faces between successive form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along an arcuate path, said axial passageway defined by varied inside dimensions. ================================================== ================ From 6,250,175: What is claimed as new and desired to be protected by Letters Patent is set forth in the appended claims: 1. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force; a flexible tube receiving said cable for axial movement and having an outside dimension; and a casing surrounding said tube, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts comprising a first set of form-parts alternately joined to a second set of form-parts, said first set of form-parts having opposite convex end faces, said second set of form-parts having opposite end faces, each having one of a concave shape and an annular shape, each of said first set of form-parts having an inside dimension corresponding to a cross section of said tube, said passageway in said second set of said form-parts having an inside dimension exceeding the cross section of said tube, said form-parts having abutting end faces between adjacent form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along accurate paths, each dispositions of said casing along arcuate paths, each of said form-parts having an interior recess forming a section of said axial passageway with an interior diameter exceeding said outside dimension of said tube. 2. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force; a flexible tube for receiving said cable for axial movement of said cable and having an outside diameter; and a casing surrounding said tube, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts including a first set of form-parts alternately joined to a second set of form-parts, said first set of form-parts having opposite convex end faces, said second set of form-parts having opposite end faces, each having one of a concave shape and an annular shape, each of said first set a form-parts having a circumferential cylindrical collar centrally located thereon, said form parts having abutting end faces between adjacent form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along arcuate paths, each of said form-parts having an interior recess forming a section of said axial passageway with an interior diameter exceeding said outside dimension of said tube. 3. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force; a flexible tube for accommodating the cable; and a casing surrounding said tube for absorbing a pressure force, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts having abutting end faces between successive form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along an arcuate path, said form-parts comprising first and second sets of form parts, said tube having an outside dimension corresponding to an inside dimension of the passageway, each of said form parts having an interior recess forming a section of said axial passageway with an interior dimension with a diameter exceeding that of the tube for creating a space for compensatory movement of said tube within said axial passageway when the cable therein transmits a tensile force, each of said first set of form-parts having an inside dimension corresponding to a cross section of said tube, with said axial passageway in said second set of form-parts having an inside dimension exceeding the cross-section of said tube. 4. A flexible tensile force transmitting cable system, comprising: a cable for transmitting a tensile force, said cable extending diagonally through a frame assembly; fittings securing said cable system at opposite ends of said frame assembly; a flexible tube for accommodating the cable; and a casing surrounding said tube for absorbing a pressure force, said casing including a plurality of form-parts joined to one another to form a continuous axial passageway defined by an inside dimension of varying diameters, said form-parts having abutting end faces between successive form-parts with complementary configurations enabling dispositions of said casing along an arcuate path, said tube having an outside dimension corresponding to an inside dimension of the passageway, each of said form parts having an interior recess forming a section of said axial passageway with an interior dimension with a diameter exceeding that of the tube for creating a space for compensatory movement of said tube within said axial passageway when the cable therein transmits a tensile force. |
#20
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wrote:
I hope the patent office didn't allow them a patent because this string of beads on a cable is an old concept for controls. Making some of the beads longer than others is not novel enough for patent protection. Jobst Brandt What, you're a patent lawyer now too? Just what of your many sensibilities would be offended by the issuance of such a patent? By your own admission you haven't actually touched the product nor seen it other than on a web site, but now you feel competent to pass judgment on it? Gimme a break. Are you just being pompous or does this stem from your collectivist anti-corporate prejudices? You crack me up Mr Brandt. Tom |
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