A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Danger from CF rims



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 30th 18, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.
Ads
  #2  
Old November 30th 18, 02:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,505
Default Danger from CF rims

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together.. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #3  
Old November 30th 18, 02:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,865
Default Danger from CF rims

On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #4  
Old November 30th 18, 04:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true.. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.


Andrew, as I explained to you before - Mavic, Fulcrum and Campy wheel components are almost entirely made in China or Taiwan. They send the components to Romania or Italy or France for assembly which allows these companies to claim place of origin.

Most carbon rims are made in China from prepreg from Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XqJ9eZUG58

Zipp wheels are made in China by SRAM.

Probikekit which usually has the cheapest wheel prices around are quoting almost $2,000 for a 50 mm deep Shimano wheelset and they ONLY have Shimano freehubs. Do you have some other source?

It appears that all of these companies have been having trouble with delamination and that is why they are changing over to aluminum hubs with carbon fiber fairings on them. Most of these are between 200 and 400 grams heavier per set.

So as I said, it this is a warning that these tubeless rims do not work and they in all likelihood do not work for any manufacturer.

Or we can pretend like Jay that if they are "made in America" they would work fine.
  #5  
Old November 30th 18, 04:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


Just out of curiosity - how many miles do you put in a year? How much climbing? What sort of bikes do you ride? Since you don't seem to be aware that DuraAce doesn't offer Campy freehubs I have to question what sort of riding you do.

There is a reason that most of the Pro teams use Campy. Though often I wonder why since my one Ultegra bike seems to work very well except the shifters are extremely sensitive to getting dust in the mechanism after which they are throw-away.
  #6  
Old November 30th 18, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,505
Default Danger from CF rims

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 7:28:14 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


Just out of curiosity - how many miles do you put in a year? How much climbing? What sort of bikes do you ride? Since you don't seem to be aware that DuraAce doesn't offer Campy freehubs I have to question what sort of riding you do.


I don't keep track of your equipment choices. Sorry.

To answer your question, I ride 5-10,000 miles a year, depending on the year -- probably 7,000-ish average. Maybe 5-10K climbing a week, which will ratchet back during ski season. Purely commute climbing is about 2K a week because I have to climb a minimum of 400 feet to get home every night, and I can go home directly over the West Hills for 1,100 feet of climbing in a short distance. Doing 5K of climbing on a single ride is not a big deal during the summer. We have a lot of hills -- but alas, no major climbs like Mt. Hamilton until you get well out of town. The Santa Clara Valley was better for long climbs close in. You have to string short 2-4 mile climbs together around town. For longer climbs, you have to head to the Mt. Hood territory. Great gravel riding. https://ridewithgps.com/photos/961734/large.jpg

Bikes are Emonda SLR9 (pro deal from client Trek -- thank you Trek, awesome bike), Cannondale Synapse (fast rain bike -- insurance replacement for stolen Roubaix), Norco Search 105 CF gravel bike ($1,500! -- incredible deal at Western Bikeworks) and a Cannondale CAADX commuter (warranty replacement frame), with a leaking BR-RS785 front disc caliper, which is a whole other story. I also have a 1970 Raleigh Pro track bike from my track racing era -- now for riding rollers in the basement. This collection does not include my son's bikes. The garage looks like a bike shop.

My only expensive wheels are some Dura Ace C35s and the HED Ardennes discs on the Synapse. I also have some OE wheels and wheels I built on a variety of aluminum rims. I have no pure CF wheels and don't anticipate getting any. I would never buy a FleaBay Chinese CF wheel.

There is a reason that most of the Pro teams use Campy. Though often I wonder why since my one Ultegra bike seems to work very well except the shifters are extremely sensitive to getting dust in the mechanism after which they are throw-away.


There is a reason that most pro teams use Shimano. https://bikerumor.com/2017/07/25/shi...our-de-france/

I rode the same 9sp 105 levers on my commuter for 15 years -- in rain, snow, mud, etc., etc. My son had an Ultegra left/rear shifter seize up. That's the only STI fatality since 1992, IIRC.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #7  
Old November 30th 18, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 9:33:15 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 7:28:14 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit.. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


Just out of curiosity - how many miles do you put in a year? How much climbing? What sort of bikes do you ride? Since you don't seem to be aware that DuraAce doesn't offer Campy freehubs I have to question what sort of riding you do.


I don't keep track of your equipment choices. Sorry.

To answer your question, I ride 5-10,000 miles a year, depending on the year -- probably 7,000-ish average. Maybe 5-10K climbing a week, which will ratchet back during ski season. Purely commute climbing is about 2K a week because I have to climb a minimum of 400 feet to get home every night, and I can go home directly over the West Hills for 1,100 feet of climbing in a short distance. Doing 5K of climbing on a single ride is not a big deal during the summer. We have a lot of hills -- but alas, no major climbs like Mt. Hamilton until you get well out of town. The Santa Clara Valley was better for long climbs close in. You have to string short 2-4 mile climbs together around town. For longer climbs, you have to head to the Mt. Hood territory. Great gravel riding. https://ridewithgps.com/photos/961734/large.jpg

Bikes are Emonda SLR9 (pro deal from client Trek -- thank you Trek, awesome bike), Cannondale Synapse (fast rain bike -- insurance replacement for stolen Roubaix), Norco Search 105 CF gravel bike ($1,500! -- incredible deal at Western Bikeworks) and a Cannondale CAADX commuter (warranty replacement frame), with a leaking BR-RS785 front disc caliper, which is a whole other story. I also have a 1970 Raleigh Pro track bike from my track racing era -- now for riding rollers in the basement. This collection does not include my son's bikes. The garage looks like a bike shop.

My only expensive wheels are some Dura Ace C35s and the HED Ardennes discs on the Synapse. I also have some OE wheels and wheels I built on a variety of aluminum rims. I have no pure CF wheels and don't anticipate getting any. I would never buy a FleaBay Chinese CF wheel.

There is a reason that most of the Pro teams use Campy. Though often I wonder why since my one Ultegra bike seems to work very well except the shifters are extremely sensitive to getting dust in the mechanism after which they are throw-away.


There is a reason that most pro teams use Shimano. https://bikerumor.com/2017/07/25/shi...our-de-france/

I rode the same 9sp 105 levers on my commuter for 15 years -- in rain, snow, mud, etc., etc. My son had an Ultegra left/rear shifter seize up. That's the only STI fatality since 1992, IIRC.

-- Jay Beattie.


OK, you ride a good deal. You have good equipment. Then why aren't you aware that most of the wheels built today are in China? Hell, Except for 105, Ultegra and DuraAce groups everything Shimano makes is made in mainland China.

That video I referenced plainly showed how they can build wheels without the nipple bed being linear - they are using automation and torque to measure everything and not building them like you and I build a wheel at home. This sort of automation makes is impossible to beat their prices without extensive capital investment. So all of these wheels you're seeing for as much as $4,000 are probably made in the same plant as the one's I'm paying $350 for. The fact that all of the companies are changing over to aluminum rims with carbon aero sections tells you that they all had the problem of delamination.

What would be the use of buying a Campy Bell clincher wheel when the one's I can get for $250 perform as well as the $1,200 Campy wheels that also are not tubeless? And are 200 grams lighter. Another thing - these cheap Novatec hubs are rather incredible. After a couple of months of riding I can flip the front wheel in the stand and come back 5 minutes later and it is still turning! While I certainly am not going to trust one of these tubeless rims again, the clinchers have real good performance. They also have a great deal more support for the sidewall.

I agree with you that the best way to handle carbon wheels is to use them as disk brake wheels. But that means you have to have a new bike fitted for disks. My Colnago isn't and I'm unlikely to buy any more high end bikes and this one only has one flaw - I have to replace basalt brake shoes pretty often. And that only because I put in more like 20,000 ft of climbing per month and growing older I'm being more careful descending and so using brakes where I never used to.
  #8  
Old November 30th 18, 07:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 9:33:15 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
There is a reason that most pro teams use Shimano. https://bikerumor.com/2017/07/25/shi...our-de-france/

I rode the same 9sp 105 levers on my commuter for 15 years -- in rain, snow, mud, etc., etc. My son had an Ultegra left/rear shifter seize up. That's the only STI fatality since 1992, IIRC.

-- Jay Beattie.


Shimano wasn't the most common group used. Campy is. But Shimano's electric group is the most common used by the top teams and because Shimano is paying them to do so.

I have had excellent longevity with the Shimano 7, 8 and 9 speed stuff. But the 10 speed and I expect the 11 speed are not the same. My brother has DuraAce on his Giant that worked perfectly, I kept his bike at my place and I hung it from the ceiling about 20' away from the dryer exhaust. It won't shift at all now. I put a used Ultegra group on my Time and it worked perfectly. It's on the entirely opposite side of the garage from the dryer outlet that has a filter on the exhaust and it is showing signs of failure. The first couple of shifts the right lever won't return all the way. After awhile it's back to operating normally but I don't expect that to continue. The 10 speed 105 still works fine but it appears to be constructed for dirty conditions without openings.
  #9  
Old November 30th 18, 07:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Danger from CF rims

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true.. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.


WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Andrew - what has been your experience with the lifespan of disk wheel brake pads? I hardly used my Redline with Avid hydraulic brakes bought and installed new and I've had to replace the front pads once already.
  #10  
Old November 30th 18, 08:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,865
Default Danger from CF rims

On 11/30/2018 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.


Andrew - what has been your experience with the lifespan of disk wheel brake pads? I hardly used my Redline with Avid hydraulic brakes bought and installed new and I've had to replace the front pads once already.


Yes, discs eat brake pads.
Then again they're cheap and pop in and out with fingers; no
trouble at all.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Danger! Danger! Get a flag! Frank Krygowski[_4_] Techniques 26 January 23rd 16 09:06 PM
Danger! Danger! That cyclist there! You're in a shipping lane! [email protected] Techniques 1 October 14th 15 10:28 PM
DANGER! DANGER! Beware wandering sheep if MTBing in Greece Sir Ridesalot Techniques 25 September 23rd 15 12:10 PM
Danger! Danger! (Worst liability waiver?) [email protected] General 16 February 12th 08 09:18 AM
DO NOT WEAR YOUR HELMLET!! DANGER, DANGER, danger TJ Mountain Biking 4 December 23rd 06 07:03 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.