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A few months waxing chain



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 1st 18, 06:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 498
Default A few months waxing chain

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 9:11:59 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/30/2018 7:55 AM, Tanguy Ortolo wrote:
Hello all,

A couple of months have passed since I switched to wax for chain
lubrication. I would estimate I rode about 3,000 kilometers with my
chain (cleaning it and lubricating it four times, I think), a point at
which I usually start measuring at least some elongation.

In this case, I cannot measure any. 10 links span 254 mm ± .3 mm, so
that is less than 1 ‰ of elongation. My chain is a good as new. As an
additional bonus, my entire drivetrain has never been that clean!

Unfortunately, when I switched to chain waxing, I also changed from
Shimano chains to a KMC 9.73 one, so I cannot assert that waxing
is good for chain wear, only that either it is, or KMC chains are very
resistant, or both.

Anyway, now I think I will soon be at the point where I will have to
replace my cassette that is starting to be a bit worn, without changing
the chain that is still as good as new!


Did you use pure paraffin wax, or did you add any oil to the melted wax?

--
- Frank Krygowski


I bought the can of special wax for lubing bicycle chains. I was always careful to use it in the proper manner and I did not get good results in terms of wear. Though it sure did give me a nice quiet chain for awhile.
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  #12  
Old December 1st 18, 06:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 498
Default A few months waxing chain

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:09:32 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 1/12/18 2:57 am, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:55:08 AM UTC-8, Tanguy Ortolo
wrote:
Hello all,

A couple of months have passed since I switched to wax for chain
lubrication. I would estimate I rode about 3,000 kilometers with
my chain (cleaning it and lubricating it four times, I think), a
point at which I usually start measuring at least some elongation.

In this case, I cannot measure any. 10 links span 254 mm ± .3 mm,
so that is less than 1 ‰ of elongation. My chain is a good as new.
As an additional bonus, my entire drivetrain has never been that
clean!

Unfortunately, when I switched to chain waxing, I also changed
from Shimano chains to a KMC 9.73 one, so I cannot assert that
waxing is good for chain wear, only that either it is, or KMC
chains are very resistant, or both.

Anyway, now I think I will soon be at the point where I will have
to replace my cassette that is starting to be a bit worn, without
changing the chain that is still as good as new!

-- Tanguy


My experience has been that chain waxes give you a far cleaner chain
for a long time and the chain is usually quiet but the wear is fairly
fast. And it leaves that impenetrable black muck on the cassette and
chain rings which is very difficult to remove.

Rock and Roll Gold appears to me to work the best as long as you
follow the directions completely - including the leaving it dry
overnight.

KMC chains - the upper level ones like the Silver and Gold - wear
very well but are significantly heavier.


My experience has been that chain lube made from a mix of wax and oil
(about 50/50, solid at room temperature) and applied as a hot bath
(liquid), gives you a cleaner chain for a long time and the chain runs
quiet and the wear rate is fairly low.

And it leaves minimal muck on the drive components, that is easy to remove.

As I can make my lubricant from a few paraffin candles and some gear
oil, it is very cheap indeed, and you only use what sticks to the chain
when you remove the chain from the hot lubricant.

KMC chains are better or worse? You decide
https://www.cantitoeroad.com/assets/images/products/docs/connex_by_wippermann/Chainwear_Test_10_Speed_10-JUN-2010.pdf

--
JS


The difference between the Camoy Record and Veloce is rather amazing. I can only think that the Record which has the spaces in the side plates cut out to reduce weight actually do stretch because of that.
  #13  
Old December 1st 18, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 498
Default A few months waxing chain

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.


Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.


If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.
  #14  
Old December 2nd 18, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.


Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.


If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.


I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.


  #15  
Old December 2nd 18, 02:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,440
Default A few months waxing chain

On 12/1/2018 5:35 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 07:02:38 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.


Ask anyone and they'll tell you they're using the absolute best chain lube
available. :-)


And the best bicycle and the best chain and the best lights and, and,
and :-)


Especially if they live in Ireland. :-/


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old December 2nd 18, 02:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,440
Default A few months waxing chain

On 12/1/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.


Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.


If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/

Sorry, that's a bull**** article, at least regarding wax lube. He didn't
test any sort of paraffin lube. He gave his own Scharf-like theories on
what happens with wax lubes, without an iota of data to back it up.

And he ignored the real-world data (that is, on-the-road data) that
shows paraffin gives the longest chain life of all lubes tested. I've
posted that link many times. I can post it again if needed.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old December 2nd 18, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,440
Default A few months waxing chain

On 12/1/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:09:32 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 1/12/18 2:57 am,
wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:55:08 AM UTC-8, Tanguy Ortolo
wrote:
Hello all,

A couple of months have passed since I switched to wax for chain
lubrication. I would estimate I rode about 3,000 kilometers with
my chain (cleaning it and lubricating it four times, I think), a
point at which I usually start measuring at least some elongation.

In this case, I cannot measure any. 10 links span 254 mm ± .3 mm,
so that is less than 1 ‰ of elongation. My chain is a good as new.
As an additional bonus, my entire drivetrain has never been that
clean!

Unfortunately, when I switched to chain waxing, I also changed
from Shimano chains to a KMC 9.73 one, so I cannot assert that
waxing is good for chain wear, only that either it is, or KMC
chains are very resistant, or both.

Anyway, now I think I will soon be at the point where I will have
to replace my cassette that is starting to be a bit worn, without
changing the chain that is still as good as new!

-- Tanguy

My experience has been that chain waxes give you a far cleaner chain
for a long time and the chain is usually quiet but the wear is fairly
fast. And it leaves that impenetrable black muck on the cassette and
chain rings which is very difficult to remove.

Rock and Roll Gold appears to me to work the best as long as you
follow the directions completely - including the leaving it dry
overnight.

KMC chains - the upper level ones like the Silver and Gold - wear
very well but are significantly heavier.


My experience has been that chain lube made from a mix of wax and oil
(about 50/50, solid at room temperature) and applied as a hot bath
(liquid), gives you a cleaner chain for a long time and the chain runs
quiet and the wear rate is fairly low.

And it leaves minimal muck on the drive components, that is easy to remove.

As I can make my lubricant from a few paraffin candles and some gear
oil, it is very cheap indeed, and you only use what sticks to the chain
when you remove the chain from the hot lubricant.

KMC chains are better or worse? You decide
https://www.cantitoeroad.com/assets/images/products/docs/connex_by_wippermann/Chainwear_Test_10_Speed_10-JUN-2010.pdf

--
JS


The difference between the Camoy Record and Veloce is rather amazing. I can only think that the Record which has the spaces in the side plates cut out to reduce weight actually do stretch because of that.


If you're speculating that the metal in the Record side plates
permanently stretches because of the cutouts, I _very_ much doubt that.

If you like, we can do the calculations. Give us dimensions of the side
plates - width, thickness, and width of cutout. It's not a hard problem.

(Campy engineers are competent enough to calculate tensile stress and
compare it with yield stress.)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old December 2nd 18, 03:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:18:35 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/1/2018 5:35 AM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 07:02:38 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.

Ask anyone and they'll tell you they're using the absolute best chain lube
available. :-)


And the best bicycle and the best chain and the best lights and, and,
and :-)


Especially if they live in Ireland. :-/


If they live in Ireland it is the best house, car, wife, kids, bicycle
and booze.

cheers,

John B.


  #19  
Old December 2nd 18, 04:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 380
Default A few months waxing chain

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:32:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/1/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:09:32 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 1/12/18 2:57 am,
wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 4:55:08 AM UTC-8, Tanguy Ortolo
wrote:
Hello all,

A couple of months have passed since I switched to wax for chain
lubrication. I would estimate I rode about 3,000 kilometers with
my chain (cleaning it and lubricating it four times, I think), a
point at which I usually start measuring at least some elongation.

In this case, I cannot measure any. 10 links span 254 mm .3 mm,
so that is less than 1 of elongation. My chain is a good as new.
As an additional bonus, my entire drivetrain has never been that
clean!

Unfortunately, when I switched to chain waxing, I also changed
from Shimano chains to a KMC 9.73 one, so I cannot assert that
waxing is good for chain wear, only that either it is, or KMC
chains are very resistant, or both.

Anyway, now I think I will soon be at the point where I will have
to replace my cassette that is starting to be a bit worn, without
changing the chain that is still as good as new!

-- Tanguy

My experience has been that chain waxes give you a far cleaner chain
for a long time and the chain is usually quiet but the wear is fairly
fast. And it leaves that impenetrable black muck on the cassette and
chain rings which is very difficult to remove.

Rock and Roll Gold appears to me to work the best as long as you
follow the directions completely - including the leaving it dry
overnight.

KMC chains - the upper level ones like the Silver and Gold - wear
very well but are significantly heavier.


My experience has been that chain lube made from a mix of wax and oil
(about 50/50, solid at room temperature) and applied as a hot bath
(liquid), gives you a cleaner chain for a long time and the chain runs
quiet and the wear rate is fairly low.

And it leaves minimal muck on the drive components, that is easy to remove.

As I can make my lubricant from a few paraffin candles and some gear
oil, it is very cheap indeed, and you only use what sticks to the chain
when you remove the chain from the hot lubricant.

KMC chains are better or worse? You decide
https://www.cantitoeroad.com/assets/images/products/docs/connex_by_wippermann/Chainwear_Test_10_Speed_10-JUN-2010.pdf

--
JS


The difference between the Camoy Record and Veloce is rather amazing. I can only think that the Record which has the spaces in the side plates cut out to reduce weight actually do stretch because of that.


If you're speculating that the metal in the Record side plates
permanently stretches because of the cutouts, I _very_ much doubt that.

If you like, we can do the calculations. Give us dimensions of the side
plates - width, thickness, and width of cutout. It's not a hard problem.

(Campy engineers are competent enough to calculate tensile stress and
compare it with yield stress.)


ASME/ANSI B29.1-2011 Roller Chain Standard Sizes

#40
Pitch 0.500 in (12.70 mm)
Roller Size 0.312 in (7.92 mm)
Tensile Strength 3,125 lb (1,417 kg)

cheers,

John B.


  #20  
Old December 2nd 18, 07:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default A few months waxing chain

On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:03:08 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 10:20:29 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 10:38:18 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:56:00 +1100, James
wrote:

On 1/12/18 12:28 pm, John B. slocomb wrote:


I've been using a mix of paraffin and a light grease containing
Molybdenum disulfide. I added a bit of bee's wax thinking it might
make the mixture a bit more pliable but I'm not sure that is
necessary.

As paraffin is soluble in benzene I suppose that one could brew up a
liquid batch, with benzene, and squirt it on with an oil can but
dunking the chain in an electrical pot full of paraffin seems so much
easier :-)

The other nice thing is that a pot full lasts for years. One doesn't
have to worry about running short and much cheaper then the
proprietary blends too :-)



I'm beginning to think it is more constructive to point and laugh at
people who spend a lot for a little bottle of mostly solvent and a
fraction of lubricant.

Ah but... they are using the absolute best chain lube available...
just ask them :-)

cheers,

John B.


If you look at a real world test it appears that the cheapest oil possible applied often and the chain cleaned often appears to give the longest chain life.
http://biketestreviews.com/the-last-...n-lubrication/


The longest chain life would, indubitable, be a chain that is run in
a sealed "chain case" filled with oil. Back in the day when
motorcycles had a separate transmission driven by a "Primary Chain" in
a sealed "case" with constant oil lubrication it was common to have to
change the final drive chain from the transmission to the rear wheel
while the Primary Chain lasted practically for ever. In about 1949 I
owned an Indian Scout motorcycle that had been built ten years earlier
with the original primary chain.

However, paraffin waxes give the least friction under use:
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

This pretty much explains why a waxed chain is so quiet. It is consuming about half the energy as a chain with White Lightning. Notice my Rock and Roll is second best. So this isn't my opinion as you seem to think.

Of course your chain lube is superior to all others. And your wheels
are better, and your bicycle is better, and, and, and. Just like
everyone else.

I do not use paraffin wax because of the great deal of trouble cleaning the chainrings and cogs. I use expensive cassettes and I'd just as soon no have them looking like a pile of dirt, And these expensive cassettes have several cogs attached together that make cleaning them extremely difficult. Not to mention tearing the chain rings off of the crankset to clean them.


I really wonder about you. Everyone who has used paraffin for a chain
lube has commented about how clean everything is while you say exactly
the opposite.

cheers,

John B.


No wonder you're so grouchy all the time - you're a hundred years old.
 




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