Schwinn in Department Store

I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there? Are they beaters,
or are they low-end bike shop quality? I have the experience to fix
most simple things that could go wrong, and the complex repairs can
still be given to the LBS. Thanks.

Later,
Nelson Chen

__o Same road Boycott Wal-Mart, union-buster.
_`\,_ Same rights
(_)/ (_) Same rules

wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there?

Schwinn?

A refresher as to the standard bike-business business cycle is in order:

Let's start at the beginning... Many years ago:

1. A dedicated and skilled craftsman starts building high quality bikes in
small quantities,
2. He (her) bike brand gains a reputation for quality,
3. He expands and hires other craftsmen. Period of rapid growth. The bike
is the "in" thing to have,
4. To "compete", and to expand production, the brand outsources with
low-wage labour,
5. Driven by irreversible expansion plans (grow market share or die) the
firm takes on a significant amount of debt
6. To raise more capital, the firm goes public
7. Driven by merciless quarterly profit targets, intense shareholder
pressures, and mass-market competitive pressures, the firm increasingly
resorts to marketing gimmicks, an onslaught of new products and cutthroat
cost-cutting
8. Driven by insider trading, rapacious executive salary demands, and
temporarily propped-up by accounting "irregularities", the company
eventually (Enron-style) blows up.
9. Everyone is laid-off, small investors lose everything, and the company
assets are sold as scrap.
10. It the company name still has any recognition or credibility with
consumers, the brandname is bought by offshore manufacturers.
11. The new company cranks out millions of the cheapest possible bikes using
the Ex-company brandname. There is no connection whatsoever between the
original company or original quality and the new bikes.
12. When bikes shops get fed up with the deteriorated quality, the bikes are
sold at X-Mart and toy stores.
13. Over the next few years, the brandname loses any remaining loyalty or
remnants of good reputation
14. When there is nothing left of value, then the name is finally dropped.
15. The department-store bike makers move on to a newly defunct brandname.

"Dave Mayer" wrote in message
news:Xd6te.1736070$Xk.1246852@pd7tw3no...
wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there?

Schwinn?

A refresher as to the standard bike-business business cycle is in order:

Let's start at the beginning... Many years ago:

1. A dedicated and skilled craftsman starts building high quality bikes in
small quantities,
2. He (her) bike brand gains a reputation for quality,
3. He expands and hires other craftsmen. Period of rapid growth. The
bike
is the "in" thing to have,
4. To "compete", and to expand production, the brand outsources with
low-wage labour,
5. Driven by irreversible expansion plans (grow market share or die) the
firm takes on a significant amount of debt
6. To raise more capital, the firm goes public
7. Driven by merciless quarterly profit targets, intense shareholder
pressures, and mass-market competitive pressures, the firm increasingly
resorts to marketing gimmicks, an onslaught of new products and cutthroat
cost-cutting
8. Driven by insider trading, rapacious executive salary demands, and
temporarily propped-up by accounting "irregularities", the company
eventually (Enron-style) blows up.
9. Everyone is laid-off, small investors lose everything, and the company
assets are sold as scrap.
10. It the company name still has any recognition or credibility with
consumers, the brandname is bought by offshore manufacturers.
11. The new company cranks out millions of the cheapest possible bikes
using
the Ex-company brandname. There is no connection whatsoever between the
original company or original quality and the new bikes.
12. When bikes shops get fed up with the deteriorated quality, the bikes
are
sold at X-Mart and toy stores.
13. Over the next few years, the brandname loses any remaining loyalty or
remnants of good reputation
14. When there is nothing left of value, then the name is finally dropped.
15. The department-store bike makers move on to a newly defunct brandname.



What will be next? Cannondale?

In article ,
"Kurd" wrote:

"Dave Mayer" wrote in message
news:Xd6te.1736070$Xk.1246852@pd7tw3no...
wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there?

Schwinn?

A refresher as to the standard bike-business business cycle is in order:

Let's start at the beginning... Many years ago:

1. A dedicated and skilled craftsman starts building high quality bikes in
small quantities,
2. He (her) bike brand gains a reputation for quality,
3. He expands and hires other craftsmen. Period of rapid growth. The
bike
is the "in" thing to have,
4. To "compete", and to expand production, the brand outsources with
low-wage labour,
5. Driven by irreversible expansion plans (grow market share or die) the
firm takes on a significant amount of debt
6. To raise more capital, the firm goes public
7. Driven by merciless quarterly profit targets, intense shareholder
pressures, and mass-market competitive pressures, the firm increasingly
resorts to marketing gimmicks, an onslaught of new products and cutthroat
cost-cutting
8. Driven by insider trading, rapacious executive salary demands, and
temporarily propped-up by accounting "irregularities", the company
eventually (Enron-style) blows up.
9. Everyone is laid-off, small investors lose everything, and the company
assets are sold as scrap.
10. It the company name still has any recognition or credibility with
consumers, the brandname is bought by offshore manufacturers.
11. The new company cranks out millions of the cheapest possible bikes
using
the Ex-company brandname. There is no connection whatsoever between the
original company or original quality and the new bikes.
12. When bikes shops get fed up with the deteriorated quality, the bikes
are
sold at X-Mart and toy stores.
13. Over the next few years, the brandname loses any remaining loyalty or
remnants of good reputation
14. When there is nothing left of value, then the name is finally dropped.
15. The department-store bike makers move on to a newly defunct brandname.



What will be next? Cannondale?

Cannondale came pretty close to going under after its ill-fated
motorsports venture. Cannondale has just introduced a carbon bike made
in Taiwan, which may be a first for them (it's certainly the first
really high-end bike they've made overseas).

That puts them at stages 4 and 7 of Daveolution, but the company is
otherwise healthy and profitable, last time I checked.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On 18 Jun 2005 13:38:04 -0700, wrote:

I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there? Are they beaters,
or are they low-end bike shop quality? I have the experience to fix
most simple things that could go wrong, and the complex repairs can
still be given to the LBS. Thanks.

Later,
Nelson Chen

__o Same road Boycott Wal-Mart, union-buster.
_`\,_ Same rights
(_)/ (_) Same rules

Schwinn is selling entry level road bikes that use Shimano Sora level
of components in bike shops. Apparantly they are still winning "best
value" awards from the editors of some of the cycling magazines. Not
a bad beginners bike at the price they are being sold for on Ebay.

The Schwinns I have seen in department stores have all been kids
mountain bikes that appear to have just enough shimano components to
have the name on the chain stay. I suspect the Schwinn would stay in
adjustment longer and and that the quality compromises Schwinn had to
make to compete with the likes of the roadmaster fury would be fewer.

The question should be is the Schwinn sold in department stores worth
the extra few bucks you would pay more than for the much touted
roadmaster fury.

NEVER!!! Cannondle learned its lesson from the idiotic motorcycle
foray. The have mastered aluminum bikes but it is wise to outsource
carbon which they have no experience with. C'dale will never sink to
the dept store level.

wrote in message
oups.com...
NEVER!!! Cannondle learned its lesson from the idiotic motorcycle
foray. The have mastered aluminum bikes but it is wise to outsource
carbon which they have no experience with. C'dale will never sink to
the dept store level.

Exactly. Cannondale has not much to worry about.

On 18 Jun 2005 13:38:04 -0700, wrote:

I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store (since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there? Are they beaters,
or are they low-end bike shop quality? I have the experience to fix
most simple things that could go wrong, and the complex repairs can
still be given to the LBS. Thanks.

My opinion only:

Schwinn isn't what it used to be. The Schwinns in Mall-Wart and other
such stores are compromise bikes; they have some good stuff, some
cheap stuff, and essentially no support after the sale[1]. For
someone with at least moderate bike maintenance skills and a limited
budget, they're usually a step up in component quanlity from the
Roadmasters typically displayed alongside them. If they meet your
needs, I don't know of a compelling reason to avoid buying them if
doing business with that store isn't anathema otherwise. OTOH, if you
want a bike that's actually ready to ride (which is not a condition
that I would expect in any Mall-Wart unit that I have seen; there's
*always* soemthing that needs fiddling), and if you want some
assurance that you'll be able to get help with any minor issues that
come up, the lbs is the better source.


[1] While Schwinn bikes sold at Mall-Wart come with a warranty, you
may find that for minor adjustments, a Schwinn dealer of the lbs
variety will be willing to perform such adjustments only at your
expense...and properly so. Here's the Schwinn warranty on
department-store bikes, pay particular attention to item 3 in the
Conditions section:

: PARTS All other parts of the unit except Normal Wear Parts are
warranted against defective materials and workmanship for as long as
the initial consumer purchaser has the bicycle, subject to the Terms
and Conditions of this Limited Warranty. If failure of any part should
occur due to faulty materials or workmanship during the warranty
period, the part will be replaced.

: All warranty claims must be submitted to the address below and
must be shipped prepaid and accompanied by proof of purchase. Any
other warranty claims not included in this statement are void. This
especially includes installation, assembly, and disassembly costs.
This warranty does not cover paint damage, rust, or any modifications
made to the bicycle.

: Normal Wear Parts are defined as grips, tires, tubes, cables, brake
shoes and saddle covering. These parts are warranted to be free from
defects in material and workmanship as delivered with the product. Any
claim for repair or replacement of Normal Wear Parts (grips, tubes,
tires, cables, brake shoes and saddle covering) and missing parts must
be made within thirty (30) days of the date of purchase. The warranty
does not cover normal wear and tear, improper assembly or maintenance,
or installation of parts or accessories not originally intended or
compatible with the bicycle as sold. The warranty does not apply to
damage or failure due to accident, abuse, misuse, neglect, or theft.
Claims involving these issues will not be honored.

: CONDITIONS OF WARRANTY
: 1. Your bicycle has been designed for general transportation and
recreational use, but has not been designed to withstand abuse
associated with stunting and jumping.
: This warranty ceases when you rent, sell, or give away the bicycle,
ride with more than one person, or use the bicycle for stunting or
jumping.
: 2. This warranty does not cover ordinary wear and tear or anything
you break accidentally or deliberately.
: 3. It is the responsibility of the individual consumer purchaser to
assure that all parts included in the factory-sealed carton are
properly installed, all functional parts are initially adjusted
properly, and subsequent normal maintenance services and adjustments
necessary to keep the bicycle in good operating condition are properly
made.
: This warranty does not apply to damage due to improper installation
of parts or failure to properly maintain or adjust the bicycle.

: NOTICE: Bicycle specifications subject to change without notice.


Yes, the Schwinn Wal-Mart Bike warranty says that you get to put the
bike together yourself, they're not responsible for your work, and
they don't pay labor on repairs at all, period.

Does the lbs look better now?
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

wrote:
Does anyone have experience with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there? Are they beaters,
or are they low-end bike shop quality? I have the experience to fix
most simple things that could go wrong, and the complex repairs can
still be given to the LBS. Thanks.

They're crap. That said, if you don't mind buying, assembling, riding,
and maintaining crap, what a deal. Schwinns are half as expensive as
bikes.

-Vee

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kurd" wrote:

"Dave Mayer" wrote in message
news:Xd6te.1736070$Xk.1246852@pd7tw3no...
wrote in message

oups.com...
I recently saw a couple of Schwinns being sold in a
department store.
In spite of the fact that conventional wisdom is that
buying a bike
from a LBS is superior to buying from a department store
(since dept
stores typically carry nothing more than beaters), I
nevertheless am
wondering about the quality of the department store
Schwinns, as the
prices offered appear lower. Does anyone have experience
with the
typical lower-end Schwinns that would appear there?

Schwinn?

A refresher as to the standard bike-business business cycle
is in order:

Let's start at the beginning... Many years ago:

1. A dedicated and skilled craftsman starts building high
quality bikes in
small quantities,
2. He (her) bike brand gains a reputation for quality,
3. He expands and hires other craftsmen. Period of rapid
growth. The
bike
is the "in" thing to have,
4. To "compete", and to expand production, the brand
outsources with
low-wage labour,
5. Driven by irreversible expansion plans (grow market
share or die) the
firm takes on a significant amount of debt
6. To raise more capital, the firm goes public
7. Driven by merciless quarterly profit targets, intense
shareholder
pressures, and mass-market competitive pressures, the firm
increasingly
resorts to marketing gimmicks, an onslaught of new products
and cutthroat
cost-cutting
8. Driven by insider trading, rapacious executive salary
demands, and
temporarily propped-up by accounting "irregularities", the
company
eventually (Enron-style) blows up.
9. Everyone is laid-off, small investors lose everything,
and the company
assets are sold as scrap.
10. It the company name still has any recognition or
credibility with
consumers, the brandname is bought by offshore
manufacturers.
11. The new company cranks out millions of the cheapest
possible bikes
using
the Ex-company brandname. There is no connection
whatsoever between the
original company or original quality and the new bikes.
12. When bikes shops get fed up with the deteriorated
quality, the bikes
are
sold at X-Mart and toy stores.
13. Over the next few years, the brandname loses any
remaining loyalty or
remnants of good reputation
14. When there is nothing left of value, then the name is
finally dropped.
15. The department-store bike makers move on to a newly
defunct brandname.



What will be next? Cannondale?

Cannondale came pretty close to going under after its ill-fated
motorsports venture. Cannondale has just introduced a carbon
bike made
in Taiwan, which may be a first for them (it's certainly the
first
really high-end bike they've made overseas).

That puts them at stages 4 and 7 of Daveolution, but the
company is
otherwise healthy and profitable, last time I checked.

Cannondale did go under. It filed Chapter 11 and was purchased
by its primary creditor, Pegasus Parners, a venture capital
firm. -- Jay Beattie.