#1
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butted spokes (?)
I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I
thought of using butted spokes (my frand told me taht u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you reccomend (thickness) and why ? Now some data: I weight around 170 lbs, the rim I want to use is mavic 317 DISC, DT hubs, hydro disc brakes, the bike is a hardtail. Thx in advance for any help. |
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#2
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butted spokes (?)
wrote in message ... I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I thought of using butted spokes (my frand told me taht u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you reccomend (thickness) and why ? Now some data: I weight around 170 lbs, the rim I want to use is mavic 317 DISC, DT hubs, hydro disc brakes, the bike is a hardtail. Thx in advance for any help. I found spokes swaged to as thin as 1.6 mm are recommended by manufacturers to NOT be used in disc brake wheels; presumably this restrictions has something to do with the forces exerted through spokes with the use of hub disc brakes. (2.0 x 1.8 swaged spokes are Ok and may be optimal; however, there are spokes available with ends greater than 2.0 that are marketed for some hub disc brake applications.) Disc brake wheels I've used for road application came with 2.0 mm x 1.8 mm "Race" spokes manufactured by Sapim. http://www.sapim.be/ Best information source for the rest of your questions regarding use of swaged (aka "butted") spokes, IMO, is "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#books -- Mykal Crooks Seattle, WA |
#3
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butted spokes (?)
wrote:
I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I thought of using butted spokes (my frand told me taht u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you reccomend (thickness) and why ? The purpose of using butted spokes is to produce a more durable wheel, not to save weight. The weight savings will be minimal. Spokes are most likely to break at the elbow (where they attach to the hub) or at the nipple. Butted spokes provide strength at those areas while the thinner center portion gives greater elasticity. The greater elasticity makes it less likely that a spoke will go slack when hitting bumps. When spokes go slack (even momentarily) the nipple can loosen, causing the wheel to go out of true. Once a nipple starts to loosen, the process will continue until the spoke becomes completely slack. I would not recommend 2.0-1.5-2.0 spokes. The difference in the diameters of the butted vs. unbutted sections is too great, and you'll have lots of trouble with spoke wind-up when tensioning them. For your application, I would use 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes (DT Competition). Art Harris |
#4
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butted spokes (?)
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#5
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butted spokes (?)
Mykal Crooks writes:
I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I thought of using butted spokes (my friend told me that u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you recommend (thickness) and why ? Now some data: I weight around 170 lbs, the rim I want to use is Mavic 317 DISC, DT hubs, hydro disc brakes, the bike is a hardtail. I found spokes swaged to as thin as 1.6 mm are recommended by manufacturers to NOT be used in disc brake wheels; presumably this restrictions has something to do with the forces exerted through spokes with the use of hub disc brakes. (2.0 x 1.8 swaged spokes are OK and may be optimal; however, there are spokes available with ends greater than 2.0 that are marketed for some hub disc brake applications.) Disc brake wheels I've used for road application came with 2.0 mm x 1.8 mm "Race" spokes manufactured by Sapim. http://www.sapim.be/ I don't understand the aversion to thin spokes with disc brakes if it is something other than for the caliper crashing into the spokes. Disc brake torque is no greater spoke load than peak pedaling torque and it is distributed to both sides of the wheel, which pedaling torque is not. Besides, finite element analysis shows that torque is a far lighter load on spokes than radial loads. I don't believe these folks are aware of any of that and are guessing with the seat of their pants, or maybe they are just impressed with the power of their brake. Jobst Brandt |
#7
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butted spokes (?)
Mykal wrote:
wrote in message ... I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I thought of using butted spokes (my frand told me taht u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you reccomend (thickness) and why ? Now some data: I weight around 170 lbs, the rim I want to use is mavic 317 DISC, DT hubs, hydro disc brakes, the bike is a hardtail. Thx in advance for any help. I found spokes swaged to as thin as 1.6 mm are recommended by manufacturers to NOT be used in disc brake wheels; presumably this restrictions has something to do with the forces exerted through spokes with the use of hub disc brakes. (2.0 x 1.8 swaged spokes are Ok and may be optimal; however, there are spokes available with ends greater than 2.0 that are marketed for some hub disc brake applications.) Disc brake wheels I've used for road application came with 2.0 mm x 1.8 mm "Race" spokes manufactured by Sapim. http://www.sapim.be/ Best information source for the rest of your questions regarding use of swaged (aka "butted") spokes, IMO, is "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tools/wheel.html#books jobst calls them all "swaged" but that's because he's seemingly unaware of the fact that different spokes are made by different methods. some are indeed swaged, but some others are drawn and yet others are ground & polished. the generic term for /all/ reduced diameter spokes is therefore "butted". don't let anyone who knows nothing about these different production methods tell you otherwise. |
#8
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butted spokes (?)
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
wrote: I'm building a bike for XC races and I'd like it to be reasonably light. I thought of using butted spokes (my frand told me taht u can save as much as 100grams per wheel). My questions a You use butted spokes for wheel strength, not weigh savings. make that "fatigue strength". strictly speaking, a straight gauge spoke is stronger than butted in static loading. 1) does it make any sense to use butted spokes at all? 2) is yes, is there any big difference in their durability (for instance standard 2.0 stainless steel spokes vs 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 spokes) ? 3) what spokes would you reccomend (thickness) and why ? Use 14/15/14 gauge spokes(2mm/1.8mm/2mm), and lace them inside pulling for a disc wheel. absolutely. Now some data: I weight around 170 lbs, the rim I want to use is mavic 317 DISC, DT hubs, hydro disc brakes, the bike is a hardtail. Thx in advance for any help. |
#9
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butted spokes (?)
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#10
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butted spokes (?)
methods. some are indeed swaged, but some others are drawn and yet
others are ground & polished. Does Wheelsmith do the last one? I've noticed that... -- Phil, Squid-in-Training |
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