A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Mountain Biking
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #421  
Old March 31st 04, 03:28 AM
Stephen Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan says:

I suspect that the industry is hoping there are no claims until the
problem can be addressed quietly.


This is not so much a suspicion as an openly stated fact within the
industry.


Care to provide a reference for this "fact?"


Ads
  #422  
Old March 31st 04, 09:28 AM
James Annan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

ospam (Stephen Baker) wrote in message ...
James Annan says:

I suspect that the industry is hoping there are no claims until the
problem can be addressed quietly.


This is not so much a suspicion as an openly stated fact within the
industry.


Care to provide a reference for this "fact?"


http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1063

"I wrote the article now being commented on (it's on my trade-only
site) and have talked to LOTS of fork folk from around the world. None
want to go on record with any quotes but all are working hard on
long-term solutions. Forks from 2005 onwards will not suffer from the
'Annan problem'."

Carlton Reid, editor of www.bikebiz.co.uk

By the way, if you really have a question to put to me, a.m-b
generally isn't the best place for it, as I only skim it occasionally.
But if you just want to make a snide comment behind my back, feel free
to cut out the x-post again...

James
  #423  
Old March 31st 04, 02:13 PM
Stephen Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan says:

Care to provide a reference for this "fact?"


http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=1063


Thanks - I'll go look at that in a min.

By the way, if you really have a question to put to me, a.m-b
generally isn't the best place for it, as I only skim it occasionally.


Well, if you want to say things on the newsgroup I frequent, that's where
you're gonna get your answer.

But if you just want to make a snide comment behind my back, feel free
to cut out the x-post again...


All snide comments made face-to-face, so to speak. It's no fun behind your
back...
If the x-post was cut, please blame AOHell, who don't give me an option to
x-post or not, it just goes where they say it goes.

Steve
  #424  
Old March 31st 04, 05:53 PM
Tony Raven
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

James Annan wrote:
Tony Raven wrote:


Specialized have already had a
recall for mounting tab failures.


When?

If you mean the recent recall of bikes with too large a rotor installed,
there were NO failures and no evidence that there ever would be any
failures. The problem was merely that the combination had not been
properly checked.

Puts the current situation regarding disks and QRs into context, don't
you think?

James


I should choose my words more carefully. I should have said that "Specialized
have already had a recall for _potential_ mounting tab failures"

The CPSC release said:

Hazard: During heavy braking, the brake tabs on the front forks could break
off, possibly causing a loss of control and fall from the bicycle.

Tony


  #425  
Old March 31st 04, 11:05 PM
Simon Brooke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

in message , Chris Malcolm
') wrote:

Simon Brooke writes:

in message , Tim McNamara
') wrote:


Ummm, no. The limit of braking power is not the force with which
the brake can clamp onto the rim, but the coefficient of friction
between
the tire and the riding surface. Clean dry pavement offers a higher
coefficient of friction than dirt with the same tires, although
perhaps pumice or slickrock might equal or exceed cement pavement.


Speaking as someone who regularly rides both types of bikes, I don't
agree with you. Mind you, I could be wrong - the caliper brakes on my
road bike are single pivot and not especially clever. I don't know the
extreme limits of braking on either system, since I'm now to old and
have too much respect for the fragility of my skull to just slam on
the anchors and see what happens. But I do know that I can stop
shorter - a lot shorter - on my hill bike than on my road bike, on the
same road and braking from the same speed.


I presume that on both bikes you can brake hard enough to skid the
front wheel.


No idea. I don't do so; perhaps I could, but like I say I have no
interest in the 'ejector seat' technique of coming to rest.

If you're higher off the ground on your road bike it won't be able to
stop as fast.


Don't think so. The saddles on all my bikes are the same height, modulo
normal suspension compression; likewise the handlebars. However the
angles on the hill bikes are a lot slacker, and I do habitually slip
off hte back of the saddle to brake hard on the hill bikes. So perhaps
the difference is just that I get my CoG further back.


--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.
  #426  
Old April 2nd 04, 08:42 PM
Jonesy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Doug Taylor wrote in message . ..
Tim McNamara wrote:

Well, now, that was certainly a charming response. It's unclear on
what grounds you think this to be the case, nor why you felt the need
for spurious invective. Ah, well, like many mysteries it will no
doubt remain unexplained.


Au contraire.

This from you:

"I too have been told by mountain bikers "dude, you've got no business
being out here on that road bike" on trails that are easily negotiated
on a "road" bike (although the bike in question was a cyclo-cross
bike), especially evidence by the fact that I was passing some of
them. Many mountain bikers have an exaggerated view of what equipment
is necessary to ride through a given terrain."

Gag me with a spoon. Maybe a trifle self important and sanctimonious?


Indeed. Tim holds himself above all others when commenting on this
issue, even though his training and expertise certainly do not qualify
him to be any kind of authority on any of the subjects under
discussion.

Sorry, but for the people who post in alt.mountain-bike, and who ride
mountain bikes frequently and in some cases exclusively, you clearly
have only a passing acquaintance with the sport, if that. The bikes
under discussions are mountain bikes. Nor are you an engineer. Your
observations on that subject simply parrot your idol, Brandt. You are
really nothing more than a dilettante.


Ouch. The truth hurts. Now, why can't you tell the truth about your
selfish, destructive sport? /MJV



Why not let the mountain bikers who know WTF they are talking about
(e.g. Hickey, Raven, Superslinky, Spider) discuss mountain bikes, and
the engineers who know WTF they are talking (e.g. Jobst; maybe Annan)
about discuss physics and engineering, and YOU get over yourself?


LOL. Hey, it's been a while since I went by that handle. Just to
correct the record, I do know something about MTBs, but most certainly
am NOT any kind of authority. I learn new stuff all the time, and
unlearn some old stuff now and again.

When it comes right down to it, my big problem with the whole disk
brake ejection/QR unscrewing thing is the serious lack of knowledge of
initial conditions in the reported failures/near failures. When this
issue is brought up, the distraction/obfuscation techniques begin
IMMEDIATELY. Every time.

The Annan hypothesis goes something like this (my commentary in square
brackets):

1. There is an ejection force at the drop-out. [From the simple
force diagram, this cannot be denied. The magnitude of the force is
questionable, due to the assumption of independent fork legs on Mr.
Annan's part. This simplifies the calculations, but might conceal
some mitigation.]

2. The QR is not designed to handle the ejection force. [*If* the
ejection force is as strong as he says, with no mitigation from the
fork legs being more of a unit than his calculations allow for, then
he has a possible point. Some QRs greatly exceed the minimum standard
clamping force.]

3. The QR will unscrew enough that the ends can get past the
retention tabs at the bottom of the drop-out. [This is the weakest
part of the hypothesis. It *is* true that some threaded fasteners
will unscrew under cyclical loads. Split- and lockwashers are some of
the things used to prevent this. But knurled, cammed QRs do not all
move of their own accord, and some still do under non-disk brake
useage. This implies that *further testing of the issue is required.*
Preferably where initial conditions are known and recorded, and how
many braking cycles it takes to make stuff move around.]

Clearly you are entitled to your opinion, but the officious manner in
which you express it is offensive and nauseating .


Tim clearly wishes to eat his cake and have it, too. He roundly
criticizes anyone who would show a whiff of disdain for Mr. Annan's
hypothesis, while engaging in the most sophomoric of ad hominem
commentary himself. The worst part is that he adds nothing of
substance to the discussion, but rather engages in debate tactics to
attempt to belittle his opponents. Hardly a recipe for convincing
others to take action.
--
Jonesy (formerly Spider)
  #427  
Old April 2nd 04, 09:24 PM
Stephen Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Jonesey says:

snip

ad hominem commentary


Listen, if you're going to use "ad hominem" correctly (as an adjectivy-type
thingy) you'll ruin the entire ambience of this group ;-)

Steve
  #428  
Old April 3rd 04, 12:48 AM
S o r n i
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Stephen Baker wrote:

Listen, if you're going to use "ad hominem" correctly


You mean like Jackie Gleason? Or Fred Flintstone? Or Doug Heffernen?

Bill "buffoon fan" S.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seeing the TDF in person (also posted to r.b.r) Mike Jacoubowsky General 0 July 4th 04 05:43 AM
funny things to do on a bike jake jamison General 518 June 11th 04 03:22 AM
Schwinn Rocket 88 "chain suck" issue Fletcher Mountain Biking 9 December 24th 03 04:13 PM
350 Watt Electric Scooter will bring a big smile this holiday Joe General 2 November 21st 03 07:16 AM
Warranty issue D T W .../\\... Mountain Biking 8 July 19th 03 10:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.