Braking Technique

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:

warren wrote:
In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:


warren wrote:

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:



warren wrote:

Sure Mark. Why aren't the pros following your advice?

You'll have to ask them.


I already know why. If you brake hard enough so that your front wheel
has 90+% of your bodyweight on it (according to you and your sources)
you will have a very difficult time trying to steeer/make subtle
corrections. That is nearly always much worse than a slight skid of the
rear tire and a good

You seem to misunderstand the weight shift. Weight is
shifted to the front wheel regardless of which brake you
use.

I know that, but I'm not interested in shifting as much weight to the
front as you advise because it will have a worse affect on steering
than the way I do it. But then I'm just doing what I see good pros
doing all the time.

However, in your case, your steering was greatly reduced by
your insistence on over-braking the rear wheel and skidding.
If you had slowed at the same deceleration rate but with
more reliance on the front brake (and less on the rear),
your rear tire would not have skidded, and your steering
control would have been better.

Given the situation I was in, and given that a very good pro descender
like Beloki did the same thing, I'm fine with what I did.

A skidding tire has less traction than a non-skidding
(rolling) tire. At the very least, when you first sensed
the rear wheel skidding, you should have let off a bit on
the rear brake lever,

See, you have a poor understanding of what goes on in that brief moment
when I'm trying to avoid running in to the heads of two guys sliding in
front of me who were the two riders right in front me (no time to
prepare), while I slow down as quick as I possibly could under the
circumstances. Neither of us even know exactly how much front brake I
was using but I was still able to steer around something important.

to stop the skidding and increase
whatever tire traction was available - you would have
stopped faster. If you are such a good bike handler, why
did you allow the rear tire to keep skidding?

Later you say it probably took me 40+ feet to slow down yet my rear
rire lost only about 25% of its tread. I don't think I was skidding
very long.

So, if you choose to get half of your braking from the rear
wheel, and I instead allow the front wheel to take 90% of my
weight, I will stop in a distance at least 20% shorter than
you will.

But you will have much less reliable/nimble steering around whatever it
is you're trying to avoid.

What happens if I have 90% of my weight on my front wheel and I hit a
slick spot on the pavement or a bump or a bike or body? I think it's
usually better to have less than 90% if there's a chance of hitting
something.

If won't allow the front wheel to supply the
majority of your braking, you simply can not maximize braking.

Again, braking is not the only important concern.

Although she has made her biggest mark in downhill racing,
Marla Streb races in a very wide variety of events (road &
off-road, bicycles & motorcycles). If you think she doesn't
know how to handle a bike on pavement, you are very wrong.
And again, you seem to be claiming that expert braking is
only applicable to road racing.

Nope, just that the braking on the road is often very different from
braking off road and the opinion of a MTB racer is not particularly
valuable when the obvious experience and technique of good road pros is
contrary to her method (according to you).

You seem to think that professional criterium racers know
the best braking technique.

I didn't say that. I think it can be critically important at times
(contrary to what you said earlier) but I think maximum braking while
trying to avoid something is common for a road racer too.

"In steep straight descent on a mountain bike, put your
weight far off the back of the saddle and clamp on the front
brake. Your rear brake is used, but you will skid if you
brake hard. The front brake is best for optimal control and
stopping power on very steep descents like those found on
the Slickrock Trail in Moab, Utah."

The speed used there is a fraction of what happens in my case and the
example provided by Beloki and the gradient is much different too. The
skill should be performed differently. I use my front brake more when
I'm on my MTB. Your use of MTB braking examples are another indication
that you lack an understanding of the important factors for the road,
and for his racing Phinney always had to use those mushy Dura-Ace
brakes that had poor modulation.

You said:
and I'm truly
convinced that I'm a good bike racer, so I must be an expert
bike handler, too.


I'm a better bike-handler than racer.

Says who? No evidence of that has yet been presented.

I know it. I was merely refuting your incorrect assumption about my
opinion that one fact lead to the other.

Therefore, despite my lack of
understanding of the underlying physics, people should
believe me when I explain how to brake,


Yes.

So now you are the self-declared expert. My, you truly are
impressed with yourself.

Not THE expert and lots of guys are better at it than me but the
majority of them also use both brakes for road events for the reasons
I've said, and the fact that I crash less often than the average of my
fellow racers, and am able to pass alot of people who are demonstrating
less accurate braking skills than me does indicate my skill level is
good. And unlike you, I'm not advocating something contrary to the
examples you can see every night on OLN.

Next time I'll just jam on my front brake harder and I'll stop 20%
sooner but I won't be able to avoid hitting the first guy's head
because some dope on the internet told me to put 90% of my weight on my
arms and I couldn't steer as well. "Sorry about the skull fracture but
look, my rear tire is still good!"

-WG

warren wrote:

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:

warren wrote:
In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:


warren wrote:

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:



warren wrote:

Sure Mark. Why aren't the pros following your advice?

You'll have to ask them.


I already know why. If you brake hard enough so that your front wheel
has 90+% of your bodyweight on it (according to you and your sources)
you will have a very difficult time trying to steeer/make subtle
corrections. That is nearly always much worse than a slight skid of the
rear tire and a good

You seem to misunderstand the weight shift. Weight is
shifted to the front wheel regardless of which brake you
use.

I know that, but I'm not interested in shifting as much weight to the
front as you advise because it will have a worse affect on steering
than the way I do it. But then I'm just doing what I see good pros
doing all the time.

However, in your case, your steering was greatly reduced by
your insistence on over-braking the rear wheel and skidding.
If you had slowed at the same deceleration rate but with
more reliance on the front brake (and less on the rear),
your rear tire would not have skidded, and your steering
control would have been better.

Given the situation I was in, and given that a very good pro descender
like Beloki did the same thing, I'm fine with what I did.

A skidding tire has less traction than a non-skidding
(rolling) tire. At the very least, when you first sensed
the rear wheel skidding, you should have let off a bit on
the rear brake lever,

See, you have a poor understanding of what goes on in that brief moment
when I'm trying to avoid running in to the heads of two guys sliding in
front of me who were the two riders right in front me (no time to
prepare), while I slow down as quick as I possibly could under the
circumstances. Neither of us even know exactly how much front brake I
was using but I was still able to steer around something important.

to stop the skidding and increase
whatever tire traction was available - you would have
stopped faster. If you are such a good bike handler, why
did you allow the rear tire to keep skidding?

Later you say it probably took me 40+ feet to slow down yet my rear
rire lost only about 25% of its tread. I don't think I was skidding
very long.

So, if you choose to get half of your braking from the rear
wheel, and I instead allow the front wheel to take 90% of my
weight, I will stop in a distance at least 20% shorter than
you will.

But you will have much less reliable/nimble steering around whatever it
is you're trying to avoid.

What happens if I have 90% of my weight on my front wheel and I hit a
slick spot on the pavement or a bump or a bike or body? I think it's
usually better to have less than 90% if there's a chance of hitting
something.

If won't allow the front wheel to supply the
majority of your braking, you simply can not maximize braking.

Again, braking is not the only important concern.

Although she has made her biggest mark in downhill racing,
Marla Streb races in a very wide variety of events (road &
off-road, bicycles & motorcycles). If you think she doesn't
know how to handle a bike on pavement, you are very wrong.
And again, you seem to be claiming that expert braking is
only applicable to road racing.

Nope, just that the braking on the road is often very different from
braking off road and the opinion of a MTB racer is not particularly
valuable when the obvious experience and technique of good road pros is
contrary to her method (according to you).

You seem to think that professional criterium racers know
the best braking technique.

I didn't say that. I think it can be critically important at times
(contrary to what you said earlier) but I think maximum braking while
trying to avoid something is common for a road racer too.

"In steep straight descent on a mountain bike, put your
weight far off the back of the saddle and clamp on the front
brake. Your rear brake is used, but you will skid if you
brake hard. The front brake is best for optimal control and
stopping power on very steep descents like those found on
the Slickrock Trail in Moab, Utah."

The speed used there is a fraction of what happens in my case and the
example provided by Beloki and the gradient is much different too. The
skill should be performed differently. I use my front brake more when
I'm on my MTB. Your use of MTB braking examples are another indication
that you lack an understanding of the important factors for the road,
and for his racing Phinney always had to use those mushy Dura-Ace
brakes that had poor modulation.

You said:
and I'm truly
convinced that I'm a good bike racer, so I must be an expert
bike handler, too.


I'm a better bike-handler than racer.

Says who? No evidence of that has yet been presented.

I know it. I was merely refuting your incorrect assumption about my
opinion that one fact lead to the other.

Therefore, despite my lack of
understanding of the underlying physics, people should
believe me when I explain how to brake,


Yes.

So now you are the self-declared expert. My, you truly are
impressed with yourself.

Not THE expert and lots of guys are better at it than me but the
majority of them also use both brakes for road events for the reasons
I've said, and the fact that I crash less often than the average of my
fellow racers, and am able to pass alot of people who are demonstrating
less accurate braking skills than me does indicate my skill level is
good. And unlike you, I'm not advocating something contrary to the
examples you can see every night on OLN.

Next time I'll just jam on my front brake harder and I'll stop 20%
sooner but I won't be able to avoid hitting the first guy's head
because some dope on the internet told me to put 90% of my weight on my
arms and I couldn't steer as well. "Sorry about the skull fracture but
look, my rear tire is still good!"

-WG

The theoretical computations are accurate.
But I have to wonder if there isn't a lack of reliable scientific data
on its practical application. I think we know you can't go 100% front.
But feelings won't quantify 50%, 75% or 90% to the extent that anyone
can reach a practical analysis where the rubber meets the road.

warren wrote:
In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:


warren wrote:

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:

You seem to misunderstand the weight shift. Weight is
shifted to the front wheel regardless of which brake you
use.


I know that, but I'm not interested in shifting as much weight to the
front as you advise because it will have a worse affect on steering
than the way I do it.

What affect on steering do you expect from the weight shift?
I think you'll find that weight distribution has less
effect on the ability to steer than you imagine. For
example, the old high wheeler bicycles steered just find
with most of their weight on the front wheel. Watch a BMX
freestyle rider stand on the front axle pegs - they still
steer just fine, too. (Here's an extreme example of
steering with a fully loaded front wheel:
http://www.craigjones.com/record-stoppie.html)


So, if you choose to get half of your braking from the rear
wheel, and I instead allow the front wheel to take 90% of my
weight, I will stop in a distance at least 20% shorter than
you will.

But you will have much less reliable/nimble steering around whatever it
is you're trying to avoid.

Again, I suggest you actually try steering with the majority
of weight on the front wheel before you leap to such
conclusions. You'll find it is more nimble than you
imagine. For example, if you've ever sprinted out of the
saddle, standing directly over the pedals with your chest
over the handlebars, you've probably put about 75% of your
weight on the front wheel. And yet racers do this all the
time in tight pack sprints, which also require nimble
steering. In the more stable position of being on the
saddle (or at least with your legs clamping it) and your
arms in a more braced position, you can easily remain nimble
with 80 or 90% of your weight on the front wheel.

What happens if I have 90% of my weight on my front wheel and I hit a
slick spot on the pavement or a bump or a bike or body? I think it's
usually better to have less than 90% if there's a chance of hitting
something.

That's odd that you worry about such things, when you race a
lot of criteriums. What if you leaned way over in hard
corner and you bump into someone or hit a slick patch? A
rider with experience and good technique will know how far
they can push their traction, and how to react to the
unexpected. If you so timid about slick pavement or hitting
someone, why do you race criteriums?



Although she has made her biggest mark in downhill racing,
Marla Streb races in a very wide variety of events (road &
off-road, bicycles & motorcycles). If you think she doesn't
know how to handle a bike on pavement, you are very wrong.
And again, you seem to be claiming that expert braking is
only applicable to road racing.


Nope, just that the braking on the road is often very different from
braking off road and the opinion of a MTB racer is not particularly
valuable when the obvious experience and technique of good road pros is
contrary to her method (according to you).

You seem to boo-hoo a lot of good advice from many sources.
Perhaps you open your eyes a little more, you might
actually learn something. And yes, offroad braking does
have pertinence to road braking - especially in light of the
possibility of "slick spots" you seem to be so worried
about. There may be variations in technique, but the same
basic principles apply - the laws of physics don't suddenly
change when you move from one surface to another.


I'm a better bike-handler than racer.

Says who? No evidence of that has yet been presented.


I know it.

Well, that certainly proves it - not. Your willful
ignorance of several bike handling related subjects seems to
belie that.




So now you are the self-declared expert. My, you truly are
impressed with yourself.


Not THE expert and lots of guys are better at it than me but the
majority of them also use both brakes for road events for the reasons
I've said, and the fact that I crash less often than the average of my
fellow racers, and am able to pass alot of people who are demonstrating
less accurate braking skills than me does indicate my skill level is
good. And unlike you, I'm not advocating something contrary to the
examples you can see every night on OLN.

Next time I'll just jam on my front brake harder and I'll stop 20%
sooner but I won't be able to avoid hitting the first guy's head
because some dope on the internet told me to put 90% of my weight on my
arms and I couldn't steer as well. "Sorry about the skull fracture but
look, my rear tire is still good!"

So, if I understand correctly, what the issue boils down to
in your mind is not wanting to shift too much weight onto
the front wheel because it makes steering difficult. I
don't know why you believe that. A bicycle turns by counter
steering and leaning, and front/rear weight distribution
does little to change that. Road bikes have no suspension,
so their steering geometry does not change with weight
shift. It takes little torque to turn the front wheel (even
at speed), and any additional weight shifted onto the front
wheel has no significant affect on that. After all, a
unicycle is highly nimble, even though it puts 100% of its
weight on its front wheel. Racing motorcycles don't seem to
have any problem steering, even when they are braking so
hard they are practically doing a nose-wheelie.

I think you also overestimate the traction demands of
braking. If you were to apply both brakes equally until the
rear tire skidded, you'd be at decelerating at a rate of
about 0.3g - i.e. your tires would have a traction force of
about 30% of the rider/bicycle weight. If you cornered and
leaned over enough to hit a pedal on the ground (about a 35
deg. Lean angle), you'd have a lateral force of about 0.6g,
which requires about twice as much traction force as you
could need with equal front and rear braking. And yet
racers seem to have no problem cornering at the angles and
lateral forces where they can't pedal for fear of hitting a
pedal on the ground. On good pavement, a bike can be
cornered at up to about 1 g (45 degree lean angle). Even
when you consider that the tires are nearly equally weighted
when cornering, that means each tire in a corner can support
a traction force equal to half the weight of the
rider/bicycle. Braking, on the other hand, is limited by
the pitch over point, and the pitch over point is at about
0.5g, which is within the traction that is demanded for
cornering. But there is a key difference, and that is that
under hard braking, the forward weight shift increases the
traction of the front tire, making it even less likely to
skid than in hard cornering. Since we have to brake at less
than the pitch over point, hard braking with primarily the
front brake puts less traction demands on the tires than
hard cornering. And since you are such a good bike handler,
I'm sure you have no problem with cornering traction, so you
shouldn't have problems with braking traction.

Since we're on the issue of traction and skidding: These
are always an issue during all types of riding over any
surface. Surface conditions, speed and terrain contours all
affect traction available for cornering or braking, and a
cyclists must be aware of these at all times, and adjust
their actions accordingly. However, it seems that your
solution to these problems is to simply avoid hard braking
(and its reliance on the front brake) at all times, even
when it is warranted. It seems your fear of the front brake
is preventing you from using it to its full effectiveness
when conditions allow. A better approach would be to learn
appropriate technique for hard braking situations, and
therefore the proper use of the front brake, and practice
it, so that you would have those tools at your disposal when
those situation when it is advantageous. Sure, excessive
front braking may cause problems in some situations; but
there are many, if not more, situations where problems can
be avoided with judicious use of hard front braking. When
that car pulls suddenly pulls out in front of you, pulling
hard on the front brake and loading up the front wheel may
be preferable to the alternative.

On a weekly ride I do, there is a steep (about 10% grade),
somewhat curvy, half mile descent, which ends at an
intersection with a busy road (Waltham St., intersecting
with Lexington St., in Woburn, MA). Just coasting, it is
easy to exceed 40 mph on this hill. I regularly let it fly
to about 40-42 mph, and then brake hard in the last 150 feet
around the last curve before the intersection. Trying to
use equal front and rear braking would result in rear wheel
skidding (and loss of direction control), so I use mostly
front wheel braking. I have yet to skid the front wheel or
go over the handlebars.

By the way, while there are few bicycle riding instruction
courses, there are many motorcycle riding courses. I think
you will agree there are similar concerns for motorcycle
braking (skidding, pitch over). None the less, Most of
these course attempt to teach riders to let go of their fear
of the front brake. See:

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnews/safe3.html

http://www.geocities.com/armingk/drivingskills_1_1.htm

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ian.max...Advanced_ridin
g/Braking/braking.html

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju.../00-NHT-212-mo
torcycle/motorcycle45-46.html

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...aking-tips.htm

http://www.motorcyclesafety.org/page...s_braking.html


Mark McMaster

warren wrote:
Tonight during my warmup I did some testing.

While going down a 4-6% grade at about 12mph I applied about 50% (of
what I could have applied with full squeezing force) to the front
brake only and I slowed down rapidly but my rear wheel came off the
ground
about 1-2 inches.

And then you pitched over and broke your spine and now you are posting from
hospital using a straw in your mouth? No? What a miracle! Every expert knows
that as soon as the rear wheel leaves the ground the rider will
spontaneously combust, unless of course the rear brake is on full.

For the next 3 attempts I applied about 50-60% force front brake only
on a flat section starting at about 21mph and I slowed down rapidly
but
I had to exert ALOT of pressure on the bars to keep from getting
pitched forward. It felt like something close to doing a push-up.

It's okay. Having raced 700+ criteriums at cat 3 and better you have a
strong upper body.

During the second two of these tests I tried to steer or move the bars
a bit but it was almost impossible to do anything useful with that
much pressure on the bars.

Do some more pushups.

Then I tried 2 tests with rear brake only at about 60-70% and it took
longer to slow down but it was pretty easy to continue steering.

So basically you just conceded that the original argument, which you
opposed, is correct. Q.E.D. Good game and thanks for playing. See you next
Christmas.

Then I tried two tests on the flat and a very slight down grade with
front and rear brakes, each at about 50%. I slowed down pretty fast,
was able to steer a little, and in one test my rear wheel did some
very brief (a few inches maybe), intermittent skids.

You were able to steer "a little"? Surely that level of control is not
nearly nimble enough to avoid the cyclist lying in the road ahead, on fire
(because while he was crashing he used the front brake only which made him
combust spontaneously)?

I tried two tests on a slight upgrade of about 2-5% with a bit more
braking about 60% pressure on each brake and I slowed down quickly but
there was more pressure on my arms/bars and steering was a little less
possible.

You might need to replace your headset if it makes it impossible to steer
while you are braking.

Now, more than before I'm convinced not to apply more than about 50%
pressure to my front brake and use 50-60% pressure on the rear brake
if
I may need to steer around something while braking hard. If I'm not
worried about steering I think that something around 60% on the front
and up to a light/brief skid on the rear is optimal. The likely cost
of too much front brake is far worse than the likely cost of too much
rear braking.

Except on 70 degree off-road descents on loose gravel, where traction is
sufficient for braking by sticking a branch in between the spokes of your
front wheel.

An 8 year old kid knows how to control a rear wheel skid as long as
they're still able to steer with their front wheel
They haven't raced in any criteriums so they are irrelevant. (I will now
proceed to unceremoniously delete the rest of your paragraph without reading
any useful information it may contain. (Though I'm tempted to point out that
a controlled crash isn't really a relevant form of safe braking.))

As for your comment about sprinting out of the saddle with 75% weight
on arms/front wheel... As you may know I do ALOT of sprint training.
Of course! Any professional criterium racer worth his weight in gold does.

That movement/body position (with slightly bent elbows and arms about
80 degrees to the top tube) is not trying to resist being pitched
forward (you'd better have your arms almost straight for that and at a
shallower angle than 80 degrees) and it's much easier (compared to
hard front braking) to keep your arms relatively relaxed during
sprints.

So your headset is fine but your motor skills are suffering.

....

warren wrote:

Tonight during my warmup I did some testing.

While going down a 4-6% grade at about 12mph I applied about 50% (of
what I could have applied with full squeezing force) to the front brake
only and I slowed down rapidly but my rear wheel came off the ground
about 1-2 inches.

For the next 3 attempts I applied about 50-60% force front brake only
on a flat section starting at about 21mph and I slowed down rapidly but
I had to exert ALOT of pressure on the bars to keep from getting
pitched forward. It felt like something close to doing a push-up.
During the second two of these tests I tried to steer or move the bars
a bit but it was almost impossible to do anything useful with that much
pressure on the bars.

Then I tried 2 tests with rear brake only at about 60-70% and it took
longer to slow down but it was pretty easy to continue steering.

Then I tried two tests on the flat and a very slight down grade with
front and rear brakes, each at about 50%. I slowed down pretty fast,
was able to steer a little, and in one test my rear wheel did some very
brief (a few inches maybe), intermittent skids.

I tried two tests on a slight upgrade of about 2-5% with a bit more
braking about 60% pressure on each brake and I slowed down quickly but
there was more pressure on my arms/bars and steering was a little less
possible.

Now, more than before I'm convinced not to apply more than about 50%
pressure to my front brake and use 50-60% pressure on the rear brake if
I may need to steer around something while braking hard. If I'm not
worried about steering I think that something around 60% on the front
and up to a light/brief skid on the rear is optimal. The likely cost of
too much front brake is far worse than the likely cost of too much rear
braking.

First a few of comments: As you saw, the front brake is
capable of higher braking rates than the rear. I'm sure you
also recognize that the weight shift (requiring more arm
force to oppose) was due to the deceleration rate, and not
to which brake was actually doing the braking. Although the
rear wheel skidded momentarily a few times using the rear
brakes, even at the much higher deceleration rates with the
front brake, the front wheel didn't skid.

When braking hard and loading up the front wheel, it didn't
actually take more steering torque to turn the front wheel
to steer. Instead it is a matter of muscle control, to
coordinate the small steering forces with the larger forces
needed to oppose the forward shift. Just like a lot of
other riding skills, this is a skill that can be mastered
with practice, and steering will become more nimble and fluid.

Just as a quick illustration, imagine that you had foot pegs
mounted to the rear dropouts (like on a BMX freestyle bike),
and that you stood on these wheel holding onto your
handlebar drops. In this position, it would be very
literally like doing pushups on the handlebar. The overall
front/rear wheel weight distribution would be about the same
as when riding normally, but you'd have far more of your
weight on your arms. As you can imagine, with that much
weight on you arms, it would initially be a bit more
difficult to coordinate your steering motions (even when not
braking). However, with practice, you could learn to be
quite nimble and maneuverable.

Still and all, it is good to develop the reflexes to be able
to maneuver while applying hard braking. It will add an
additional tool that can be utilized when the conditions
require it.

Of course, I'm not recommending that you slam on the brakes
and load up the front wheel every time you brake. Obviously
it would not be recommend when riding in deep sand, or over
washboard ruts. But in those situations where it can be
done and you really need it, it's nice to be able to pull
hard braking techniques out of your bag of bike handling tools.


Mark McMaster

In article , Mark McMaster
wrote:

First a few of comments: As you saw, the front brake is
capable of higher braking rates than the rear. I'm sure you
also recognize that the weight shift (requiring more arm
force to oppose) was due to the deceleration rate, and not
to which brake was actually doing the braking. Although the
rear wheel skidded momentarily a few times using the rear
brakes, even at the much higher deceleration rates with the
front brake, the front wheel didn't skid.

I think part of Beloki's problem may be that his front wheel hit that
loose or slick patch of pavement or granular stuff on top of the
pavement with a "highly-loaded" front wheel, and the front wheel
slipped a little. He had alot of braking on both wheels but I think his
steering problems are what kept him from being able to skid his rear
wheel to a controlled stop.

When braking hard and loading up the front wheel, it didn't
actually take more steering torque to turn the front wheel
to steer. Instead it is a matter of muscle control, to
coordinate the small steering forces with the larger forces
needed to oppose the forward shift. Just like a lot of
other riding skills, this is a skill that can be mastered
with practice, and steering will become more nimble and fluid.

I sincerely doubt that. When your arms are trying to oppose the weight
shift the (arm) tension has to be very high to do that. Steering (with
arms. wrist, hands, hips) takes muscles that are as relaxed as possible
and that's along way from the situation where your arms have to provide
resistance to say, 70-90% of your bodyweight, especially if those
correction have to happen very fast and accurately. Remember, in my
case the two guys directly in front of me created an obstacle and that
is not very much time or distance to make a correction.

I don't think the freestyle bike analogy works because the speeds (its
influence on steering corrections) and the dynamics of the weight shift
are so different.

I also don't think the analogy of normal road turns and stopping down a
steep hill are quite the same because not only do you have alot longer
to decide what you want to do, you have alot longer to initiate the
turn, and supple hands and arms are not as important for that type of
turning while braking hard.

-WG