How the Typical Mountain Biker Treats Horses and Other Trail Users

\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. A few months ago I was riding on the wonderful new trail that
Open Space completed last summer. I was on a single track, on the
side of a hill and a woman on a bike was bearing down on me quite fast
wearing an ipod. She was intent on looking where she was going,
gazing at the trail directly infront of her. I realized she did not
see me and I yelled at the top of my lungs and she could not hear me
because of the ipod. She finally saw me just before crashing into my
horse. Last week the same thing happened to me in the almost same
spot. A biker was coming towards my friend and I going quite fast,
looking at the trail directly in front of her which I am sure you have
to do so you do not hit rocks or ruts. It was obvious that she did
not know we were there. We both yelled at her and she came to a
screecing stop about 30 ft. in front of us. She was very nice and
apologetic and said, "I'm sorry, I never saw you because the bushes
block my view of the horses." Two horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. I rest my case."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Why bother to post an unattributed "quote"? I'm more likely to just
conclude you manufactured this rather than thinking it is real, much
as I suspect many other people will.

Chris

On Feb 1, 1:54*am, Chris wrote:
Why bother to post an unattributed "quote"? I'm more likely to just
conclude you manufactured this rather than thinking it is real, much
as I suspect many other people will.

Chris

He does manufacture most of his figures as well. Figures lie and liars
Figure!

On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Personally I've always considered riding a horse as being cruel to an
animal. Making a 1000 pound horse carry 200 pounds of rider and
saddle etc. is like making a 200 pound human carry 40 pounds for no
reason. Try walking around all day with a 40 pound pack on your back,
it gets tiring.

Eric

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. A few months ago I was riding on the wonderful new trail that
Open Space completed last summer. I was on a single track, on the
side of a hill and a woman on a bike was bearing down on me quite fast
wearing an ipod. She was intent on looking where she was going,
gazing at the trail directly infront of her. I realized she did not
see me and I yelled at the top of my lungs and she could not hear me
because of the ipod. She finally saw me just before crashing into my
horse. Last week the same thing happened to me in the almost same
spot. A biker was coming towards my friend and I going quite fast,
looking at the trail directly in front of her which I am sure you have
to do so you do not hit rocks or ruts. It was obvious that she did
not know we were there. We both yelled at her and she came to a
screecing stop about 30 ft. in front of us. She was very nice and
apologetic and said, "I'm sorry, I never saw you because the bushes
block my view of the horses." Two horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. I rest my case."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Most single tracks are only one direction, why were you riding against the
flow of traffic. Idiot

On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:54:37 -0800 (PST), Chris
wrote:

Why bother to post an unattributed "quote"?

To protect them from the inevitable abuse that mountain bikers give
anyone who dares to tell the truth about their destructive sport. But,
of course, you already knew that, and were just pretending ignorance.

I'm more likely to just
conclude you manufactured this rather than thinking it is real, much
as I suspect many other people will.

Chris
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:35:41 -0800 (PST), bluezfolk
wrote:

On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Personally I've always considered riding a horse as being cruel to an
animal. Making a 1000 pound horse carry 200 pounds of rider and
saddle etc. is like making a 200 pound human carry 40 pounds for no
reason. Try walking around all day with a 40 pound pack on your back,
it gets tiring.

If tou ACTUALLY cared about horses, which you don't, you would
advocate banning mountain biking.

40 pounds for a 200-lb human is quite a light pack! I routinely carry
more than 1/4 of my weight for backpacking. You are only demonstrating
your ignorance.

Eric
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:59:08 -0600, "DI" wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
since 1962. I would like to share two of my experiences of why I
believe that horses and bicycles on single track trails are oil and
water. A few months ago I was riding on the wonderful new trail that
Open Space completed last summer. I was on a single track, on the
side of a hill and a woman on a bike was bearing down on me quite fast
wearing an ipod. She was intent on looking where she was going,
gazing at the trail directly infront of her. I realized she did not
see me and I yelled at the top of my lungs and she could not hear me
because of the ipod. She finally saw me just before crashing into my
horse. Last week the same thing happened to me in the almost same
spot. A biker was coming towards my friend and I going quite fast,
looking at the trail directly in front of her which I am sure you have
to do so you do not hit rocks or ruts. It was obvious that she did
not know we were there. We both yelled at her and she came to a
screecing stop about 30 ft. in front of us. She was very nice and
apologetic and said, "I'm sorry, I never saw you because the bushes
block my view of the horses." Two horses weighting 1000 lbs. with
riders perched on top, making them about 7 ft. tall and she couldn't
see us. I rest my case."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Most single tracks are only one direction,

BS.

why were you riding against the
flow of traffic. Idiot
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Feb 1, 9:22*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
To protect them from the inevitable abuse that mountain bikers give
anyone who dares to tell the truth about their destructive sport.

That's crap. You could have posted where it came from, but you didn't.
Your reasoning is flawed because you could have linked to a site with
some credibility that said they were protecting their sources, but you
did not. More over, protecting sources is silly for this. It's a
trail, not a crime family. Off road riding is not destructive, as you
suggest, so your assertion is flawed in addition to false.

But, of course, you already knew that, and were just pretending ignorance..

"Knew that" is wrong because I do not think your reasoning is correct,
and as a result, do not agree with it. Stop presuming that I think off
road riding is wrong, and am acting to subvert it by feigning
ignorance. I do not think it is wrong. I do not "know" the things you
suggest because I do not agree with them in the first place.

Chris

On Feb 1, 12:26*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:35:41 -0800 (PST), bluezfolk
wrote:



On Jan 31, 11:09*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
\"I have lived in Marin since the 50s and have been riding horses here
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Personally I've always considered riding a horse as being cruel to an
animal. *Making a 1000 pound horse carry 200 pounds of rider and
saddle etc. is like making a 200 pound human carry 40 pounds for no
reason. *Try walking around all day with a 40 pound pack on your back,
it gets tiring.

If tou ACTUALLY cared about horses, which you don't, you would
advocate banning mountain biking.

40 pounds for a 200-lb human is quite a light pack! I routinely carry
more than 1/4 of my weight for backpacking. You are only demonstrating
your ignorance.

Eric

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

So make that 50 pounds, but the horse has no choice whether or not to
carry it, you do. I guess you don't really care about horses either,
since they aren't "wildlife", just extremely dumb animals.

Eric

Eric