(Wheels and) tires are to bicycles what speakers are to hi-fi

Trying to improve performance by upgrading components can be something
of an ethereal pursuit - sometimes it's hard to tell the difference; a
lot of the time you can't help but "feel" a difference just because
you expect it; and sometimes you can actually spend (a lot) of time
and money and wind up backwards because multiple "upgrades" don't jive
as a total configuration.

But I am here to testify that - just as they say in hi-fi to spend
your money on the best loudspeakers (and phono pickup) that you can
afford, tires are where the rubber hits the road on bicycles. After
riding for almost 4 months on the stock tires (Continental Contact
700x37) that came with my LHT complete bike, I finally managed to get
a pair of Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32's. At first the ride
differences were not so immediately pronounced as I had expected
(considering the new tires look to be about half the size of the old
ones), but the Vittorias straight up give a familiar ride about like I
remember the 700x28 Randonneurs (60 tpi, non-Pro) that I used to ride
on. But after leaning into a few turns, I am in 7th Heaven on these
babies :-)

These are my first ever non-wire bead tires. They mounted pretty
easily. Because these are spendy tires and I don't want to wreck
them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall recommended max 75 psi - even
though I used to pump my 700x28 Randonneurs *well* past the
recommended 80 psi (I think it was), and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10
psi above the recommended max 85.

I'm sure the Contacts. BTW, are fine tires (costing almost as much as
the Vittorias) - they rode decently enough as big hoses go, never slid
out from under me, didn't flat too terribly much (never flatted the
front), and don't show a lot of wear after at least a few thousand
miles (the front looks practically unused).

Dan O wrote:

Because these [Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32] are spendy tires
and I don't want to wreck them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall
recommended max 75 psi - even though I used to pump my 700x28
Randonneurs *well* past the recommended 80 psi (I think it was),
and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10 psi above the recommended
max 85.

I'm sure the Contacts. BTW, are fine tires (costing almost as much as
the Vittorias) - they rode decently enough as big hoses go, never slid
out from under me, didn't flat too terribly much (never flatted the
front), and don't show a lot of wear after at least a few thousand
miles (the front looks practically unused).

You might have found the stock Contis more charismatic if you
underinflated them like you're doing with the Vittorias.

Chalo

On Jul 29, 3:34*pm, Chalo wrote:
Dan O wrote:

Because these [Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32] are spendy tires
and I don't want to wreck them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall
recommended max 75 psi - even though I used to pump my 700x28
Randonneurs *well* past the recommended 80 psi (I think it was),
and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10 psi above the recommended
max 85.

You might have found the stock Contis more charismatic if you
underinflated them like you're doing with the Vittorias.

Chalo

I'm trying to remember something I read here before regarding comfort
and efficiency on a bike. It was Fit, Fat, Fitness and ?????
I'm sure there are lots of reasons to switch 28s for 32s or the other
way around, change brands &c but if you want to make a big improvement
on your cycling by changing something I doubt tires are the easiest
way to do it. Me? I could drop 20 pounds.

Cam

On Jul 29, 12:46*pm, Cam in Toronto wrote:
On Jul 29, 3:34*pm, Chalo wrote:

Dan O wrote:

Because these [Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32] are spendy tires
and I don't want to wreck them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall
recommended max 75 psi - even though I used to pump my 700x28
Randonneurs *well* past the recommended 80 psi (I think it was),
and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10 psi above the recommended
max 85.

You might have found the stock Contis more charismatic if you
underinflated them like you're doing with the Vittorias.

Chalo

I'm trying to remember something I read here before regarding comfort
and efficiency on a bike. It was Fit, Fat, Fitness and ?????
I'm sure there are lots of reasons to switch 28s for 32s or the other
way around, change brands &c but if you want to make a big improvement
on your cycling by changing something I doubt tires are the easiest
way to do it. Me? I could drop 20 pounds.


And what kind of loudspeakers (and phono pickup) (would) do you
use? ;-)

Nonsense. With audio, the speakers are the only important part. With
bikes, tires are pretty much interchangeable. Any 23-25-28mm tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride just about the same. You
could not pick them out reliably in a blind test. Any 38-35-32 tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride the same. Assuming similar
inflation levels and tread pattern. 80-120 psi compared to 80-120
psi. Smoothish compared to smootish. Not smoothish compared to
knobbies.


On Jul 29, 11:49*am, Dan O wrote:
Trying to improve performance by upgrading components can be something
of an ethereal pursuit - sometimes it's hard to tell the difference; a
lot of the time you can't help but "feel" a difference just because
you expect it; and sometimes you can actually spend (a lot) of time
and money and wind up backwards because multiple "upgrades" don't jive
as a total configuration.

But I am here to testify that - just as they say in hi-fi to spend
your money on the best loudspeakers (and phono pickup) that you can
afford, tires are where the rubber hits the road on bicycles. *After
riding for almost 4 months on the stock tires (Continental Contact
700x37) that came with my LHT complete bike, I finally managed to get
a pair of Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32's. *At first the ride
differences were not so immediately pronounced as I had expected
(considering the new tires look to be about half the size of the old
ones), but the Vittorias straight up give a familiar ride about like I
remember the 700x28 Randonneurs (60 tpi, non-Pro) that I used to ride
on. *But after leaning into a few turns, I am in 7th Heaven on these
babies :-)

These are my first ever non-wire bead tires. *They mounted pretty
easily. *Because these are spendy tires and I don't want to wreck
them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall recommended max 75 psi - even
though I used to pump my 700x28 Randonneurs *well* past the
recommended 80 psi (I think it was), and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10
psi above the recommended max 85.

I'm sure the Contacts. BTW, are fine tires (costing almost as much as
the Vittorias) - they rode decently enough as big hoses go, never slid
out from under me, didn't flat too terribly much (never flatted the
front), and don't show a lot of wear after at least a few thousand
miles (the front looks practically unused).

On Jul 29, 3:30*pm, "
wrote:
Nonsense. *With audio, the speakers are the only important part. *With
bikes, tires are pretty much interchangeable. *Any 23-25-28mm tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride just about the same. *You
could not pick them out reliably in a blind test. *Any 38-35-32 tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride the same. *Assuming similar
inflation levels and tread pattern. *80-120 psi compared to 80-120
psi. *Smoothish compared to smootish. *Not smoothish compared to
knobbies.


Bull****. Casing matters. I for one, can't stand the ride of the
Contis with the gumwalls, like the Contact and the Countryride. I even
tried a used pair of Speed Kings last week for the hell of it, and
they rode like cheap nasty tires. Granted, they're cross tires, but
still. Conti does make mtb tires with pretty nice supple casings,
though.

I replaced the Speed Kings with the spare IRC Tandems in the garage
and the ride was much sweeter due to the finer casing.

The Paselas on the other bike replace stock Kendas that weighed nearly
a pound more each at the same width and also with gummy sidewalls
instead of a quality casing. Night and day.

I don't currently ride super skinnies, but the ride difference between
23mm Vredestein Fortezzas and cheaper low thread count skinnies is
really palpable.

On Jul 29, 11:47*pm, RonSonic wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Dan O wrote:

Trying to improve performance by upgrading components can be something
of an ethereal pursuit - sometimes it's hard to tell the difference; a
lot of the time you can't help but "feel" a difference just because
you expect it; and sometimes you can actually spend (a lot) of time
and money and wind up backwards because multiple "upgrades" don't jive
as a total configuration.

But I am here to testify that - just as they say in hi-fi to spend
your money on the best loudspeakers (and phono pickup) that you can
afford, tires are where the rubber hits the road on bicycles. *After
riding for almost 4 months on the stock tires (Continental Contact
700x37) that came with my LHT complete bike, I finally managed to get
a pair of Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32's. *At first the ride
differences were not so immediately pronounced as I had expected
(considering the new tires look to be about half the size of the old
ones), but the Vittorias straight up give a familiar ride about like I
remember the 700x28 Randonneurs (60 tpi, non-Pro) that I used to ride
on. *But after leaning into a few turns, I am in 7th Heaven on these
babies :-)

These are my first ever non-wire bead tires. *They mounted pretty
easily. *Because these are spendy tires and I don't want to wreck
them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall recommended max 75 psi - even
though I used to pump my 700x28 Randonneurs *well* past the
recommended 80 psi (I think it was), and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10
psi above the recommended max 85.

I'm sure the Contacts. BTW, are fine tires (costing almost as much as
the Vittorias) - they rode decently enough as big hoses go, never slid
out from under me, didn't flat too terribly much (never flatted the
front), and don't show a lot of wear after at least a few thousand
miles (the front looks practically unused).

The Conti's might have given you a decent ride if you didn't overinflate them.

Let's consider your transducer comparison, would it improve your sound to
stiffen up the phono stylus's suspension or drop another gram of tracking weight
on it?

That max pressure isn't even a recommended pressure maximum. I can't imagine why
you'd want over 90 psi in a 37 unless you just really want to get on
Mythbusters. "Is it true some moron blew the hell out of himself with a bike
tire - we put it to the test." *The whole point of running a tire that fat is so
you can lower the pressure.

Assuming you use the recommended inflation pressure, casings
differences can yield seriously different riding characteristics. The
easiest example for me is a 28mm Bontrager Hardcase versus a 28mm
anything else. Those Hardcase tires have endless belts and
reinforcement and ride like a wheelchair tire. At lower pressures,
they feel really sluggish. Now, they are super flat resistant, but
comfortable and lively they are not. -- Jay Beattie.

On Jul 29, 2:30*pm, "
wrote:
Nonsense. *With audio, the speakers are the only important part. *

In the digital (eg, CD) age, you might be /mostly/ right, but ... if
your source material is ****ty, then the best electronics feeding the
best speakers in the world will simply amplify and magnify the flaws
in the source.

In the cartridge/stylus/tonearm/turntable days, this could be a HUGE
difference.

In the digital era ... not quite so much.

Back to you....

On Jul 29, 11:47*pm, RonSonic wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Dan O wrote:

Trying to improve performance by upgrading components can be something
of an ethereal pursuit - sometimes it's hard to tell the difference; a
lot of the time you can't help but "feel" a difference just because
you expect it; and sometimes you can actually spend (a lot) of time
and money and wind up backwards because multiple "upgrades" don't jive
as a total configuration.

But I am here to testify that - just as they say in hi-fi to spend
your money on the best loudspeakers (and phono pickup) that you can
afford, tires are where the rubber hits the road on bicycles. *After
riding for almost 4 months on the stock tires (Continental Contact
700x37) that came with my LHT complete bike, I finally managed to get
a pair of Vittoria Randonneur Pro 700x32's. *At first the ride
differences were not so immediately pronounced as I had expected
(considering the new tires look to be about half the size of the old
ones), but the Vittorias straight up give a familiar ride about like I
remember the 700x28 Randonneurs (60 tpi, non-Pro) that I used to ride
on. *But after leaning into a few turns, I am in 7th Heaven on these
babies :-)

These are my first ever non-wire bead tires. *They mounted pretty
easily. *Because these are spendy tires and I don't want to wreck
them, I stopped pumping at the sidewall recommended max 75 psi - even
though I used to pump my 700x28 Randonneurs *well* past the
recommended 80 psi (I think it was), and kept the 700x37 Contacts 5-10
psi above the recommended max 85.

I'm sure the Contacts. BTW, are fine tires (costing almost as much as
the Vittorias) - they rode decently enough as big hoses go, never slid
out from under me, didn't flat too terribly much (never flatted the
front), and don't show a lot of wear after at least a few thousand
miles (the front looks practically unused).

The Conti's might have given you a decent ride if you didn't overinflate them.


Surely the fact that I rode on them for four months implies that they
must have given me at least a decent ride.

Let's consider your transducer comparison, would it improve your sound to
stiffen up the phono stylus's suspension or drop another gram of tracking weight
on it?


I'm pretty sure that neither of those changes would yield an
improvement for my record player (quite the contrary), but it would
certainly yield a change in performance, which is why I went out of my
way to disclose the different inflation treatment I had given the
(very) different tires under consideration.

That max pressure isn't even a recommended pressure maximum.

Okay then, the manufacturer's rated maximum pressure specification.

I can't imagine why
you'd want over 90 psi in a 37...

Speed.

... unless you just really want to get on
Mythbusters. "Is it true some moron blew the hell out of himself with a bike
tire - we put it to the test."

Gee, thanks :-) (The respect-o-meter just dropped precipitously.)

*The whole point of running a tire that fat is so
you can lower the pressure.


The whole point of running a tire that fat in my case was that is what
came on the bike; they worked okay; and I couldn't afford to replace
them given the first two factors.

Glad you're enjoying your bike. Let me suggest experimenting with pressure a
bit. Ignore the some good, more better, too much just right thing you've been
operating on and really test for what actually works better for you.


Gee, why didn't *I* think of that? ;-)

Per :
Any 23-25-28mm tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride just about the same. You
could not pick them out reliably in a blind test. Any 38-35-32 tire
from any of the manufacturers will ride the same.

That has not been my experience with MTB tires.

Maybe its different with larger tires, but I feel a very large
diff in rolling resistance between a low thread count tire and a
high tread count tire.
--
PeteCresswell