A not so great biking day.....(kinda long)

In the meantime you just have to *concentrate* on unclipping
anytime you think there's a remote possibility you have to stop.

Ditto to that!

I probably unclip more than all the rest of you combined! Anytime I sense
danger, out comes that (for me) right foot.

Those inadvertent clip-ins when you think you are clipped out really sneak up
on you! We've all done that.

Also, I don't clip that right foot back in until I am positively underway. I
get pretty good at pedaling at least one stroke unclipped with my right foot.

I probably overdo precautionary things, but I haven't fallen since the two
falls I took within the first month, 5 1/2 years ago. And, I do have to be
just a bit careful - at my age, things seem to get out of whack just a bit
easier - particularly prone to acute bursitis in the left hip, which hurts like
H*** and can be aggravated by falling.

You WILL get better. That falling motivates you real well!

Good luck




http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Dan Daniel wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:26:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::
::
:::
::: Comments on how to avoid any more spills
::
:: Practice doing actual stops? Rolling and popping the cleat out is
:: almost too easy. You need to develop muscle memory for the actual
:: process- including balance and weight shifting.
::
:: Are the pedals at the absolute easiest?

Yes, at least I think they are. I think that's what let me clip back in so
easily.

That's where I put them in
:: the beginning. Loosen the tension screw click by click until there
:: are no
:: more clicks, then back in to the first click.

Okay...

::
::: and what to do with a popped spoke
::: and an untrued wheel on a ride would be much appreciated. Somehow,
::: I feel a bit unsure if myself now....damn!
:::
::
:: I'd get the wheel rebuilt first. Spokes shouldn't break in the first
:: place.

How/where does one do that and what does it entail?

The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that she
thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of stress on the rear
wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I go up a hill, but I also
follow the cadence, trying to keep it at or above 60.

Is she feeding me hooey?

::
:: And you can set up your brakes so that there is room to open them up
:: with the screw adjuster as well as the quick release. Use the screw
:: adjuster as part of the final tightening. It gives you just a bit
:: more
:: slop room if you need it. Or carry a 5mm allen wrench (or appropriate
:: wrench for your brake cable attachment system) all the time, then
:: readjust the cable when this happens to let you ride home.

Okay, great tip. I did have an allen wrench with me....btw.

R15757 wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote in part:
::
:: I bought this bike in September 2003. I only had 200 miles or so
:: up until April 17. Since then, I've put on 600 miles. My wheel is a
:: Specialized "Rolf design 700c twin spoke design high performance
:: wheel set", whatever
:: that means.
::
::
http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkMode...sionIdroot=2a2
:: 0htsnk7.j27002
::
:: My tendency is to blame it on my weight -- I'm 235 to 240 or so.
::
:: Peter C. or one of the other wheel gurus on .tech
:: would be of more help, but IMHO it sounds like the Rolf is not going
:: to be enough wheel for you. You might need something more
:: conventional (like Mavic Open Pro, Ultegra hub, 36 spokes) to get
:: you home consistently on wheels rather than on foot. It might also
:: be the case that a bigger tire (28c) could solve the problem. 28c's
:: can be hard to find these days. The good news is if you decide you
:: need to ditch the Rolfs they will be worth something, or you could
:: keep 'em for races and such. Good luck.
::
:: Any other big guys on this NG ride Rolfs?

So Rolfs have a rep for racing, I take it...so going to a new wheel means
replacing the hub too, right? Geez...that sucks since I got this bike in
September. Obviously, having to hoof it home ain't gonna work....and I do
intend to keep riding...will a 28c tire fit on my curent wheels?

I post over in .tech, too. Thanks.

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote
in message
Comments on how to avoid any more spills

Honest - in a short space of time, clipping in and out will become
second nature. Really. In the meantime you just have to *concentrate*
on unclipping anytime you think there's a remote possibility you have
to stop. If you are cycling with another - get the other person to
say "Unclip!" to you as you approach a situation where you may need
to unclip - worked for me - I had husband and son shouting "UNCLIP!!"
at me for a good while. Definitely made me feel like an idiot, but it
worked at drilling into me the need to unclip *before* stopping :-)

That is so Biblical. Did you have to avert your gaze and cover your top lip
at the same time?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:35:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Dan Daniel wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:26:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:

:::
::
:: I'd get the wheel rebuilt first. Spokes shouldn't break in the first
:: place.

How/where does one do that and what does it entail?


If you want to learn more than most people ever need to know about
wheel building, head over to rec.bicycles.tech and look through the
archives

Even without looking over posts, I'd suggest that you go to that group
and post a description of your wheel- hub, rim, spokes, age, where it
came from- and describe what has been happening to the spokes and what
they recommend.

Anyway, to get a wheel rebuilt, first you need to find someone who
knows what they are doing! The best bet is to have a new set of spokes
put in- $20 or so- and have them build it up right. There's a definite
process to get solid results, and when someone has the knowledge and
the skill, you will get a wheel that will last years or decades
without any breaks.

Or do it yourself!

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that she
thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of stress on the rear
wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I go up a hill, but I also
follow the cadence, trying to keep it at or above 60.

Is she feeding me hooey?

::

Well, to give her the benefit of the doubt, I don't know what kind of
wheel you have. Maybe you have one that is at the limit of its design
because of your weight, and that your hill technique is pushing it
beyond its design limit.

Yeah, right....... How was that for diplomacy? Look, if it is a
'normal' wheel in any way shape or form, she is full of it. A
well-built bicycle wheel will not have spokes break from pedalling
forces per se. Racers can generate much more force than you, I
imagine, and they don't have spokes breaking on them every time they
crunch up a hill. Head on over to r.b.tech and ask about her comment.

Dan Daniel wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:35:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: wrote:
::
::: Dan Daniel wrote:
::::: On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:26:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
::::: wrote:
::
::::::
:::::
::::: I'd get the wheel rebuilt first. Spokes shouldn't break in the
::::: first place.
:::
::: How/where does one do that and what does it entail?
:::
::
:: If you want to learn more than most people ever need to know about
:: wheel building, head over to rec.bicycles.tech and look through the
:: archives

Will do...thanks.

::
:: Even without looking over posts, I'd suggest that you go to that
:: group
:: and post a description of your wheel- hub, rim, spokes, age, where it
:: came from- and describe what has been happening to the spokes and
:: what
:: they recommend.

I just did exactly that...I hope I gave enough info, though....

::
:: Anyway, to get a wheel rebuilt, first you need to find someone who
:: knows what they are doing! The best bet is to have a new set of
:: spokes
:: put in- $20 or so- and have them build it up right. There's a
:: definite process to get solid results, and when someone has the
:: knowledge and
:: the skill, you will get a wheel that will last years or decades
:: without any breaks.
::
:: Or do it yourself!

A thought that I'm toying with....

::
:: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Cool...

::
::: The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that
::: she thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of
::: stress on the rear wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I
::: go up a hill, but I also follow the cadence, trying to keep it at
::: or above 60.
:::
::: Is she feeding me hooey?
:::
:::::
::
:: Well, to give her the benefit of the doubt, I don't know what kind of
:: wheel you have. Maybe you have one that is at the limit of its design
:: because of your weight, and that your hill technique is pushing it
:: beyond its design limit.
::
:: Yeah, right....... How was that for diplomacy? Look, if it is a
:: 'normal' wheel in any way shape or form, she is full of it. A
:: well-built bicycle wheel will not have spokes break from pedalling
:: forces per se. Racers can generate much more force than you, I
:: imagine, and they don't have spokes breaking on them every time they
:: crunch up a hill. Head on over to r.b.tech and ask about her comment.

Thanks...I did list her comment in my post....I'd love to know if she'll
bulling me. Pointing at my weight is certainly an easy thing to do, and I
even beat her to it Still, the old lady does *seem* to have a lot of
experience with bicycles, but as we all know that is no guarantee of sound
technical knowledge....

On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:26:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:
Well, Thursday I had cleats put in my shoes and I switched over to clipless
pedals.

Congrats.

I spent an hour or more on the trainer at the LBS getting used to locking
in/out. The hot lady who works there adjusted the tension so that they were
pretty easy to lock in/out -- which seemd to be what I needed at the time.

We all need hot ladies bending over our feet making adjustments to
our equipment.

Everything was great for the next 16 miles or so, in fact, it seemed like my
speed was up, though I was pushing it a bit since I had birthday cake last
night and wanted to burn it off....at mile 20...I was coming to a stop to

Mmmm...cake. I had birthday cake last night too. I'll have more
tonight, dammit!

to stop....Bamn! Fell to the right. Turns out, my right foot had locked
back in and I didn't even know it! That was really embarrassing as I was

This demonstrates, at least, how easy it is to get in... :/

talking to him and we both knew the moment I was going down. It all happens
in slow motion it seems, even though once you start to go you can't do much

You learn to have a scared panic reaction. You freak out and yank
your whole foot some random way which ends up releasing from the
pedal.

about it. Glad I had my helmet on as my head hit the pavement. Talk about
the inverted pendulum problem.

I hope that doesn't start a helmet war...

Anywho...at about 25 miles out along the route, I hear this noise....had
popped a spoke on the rear wheel. Dang -- I just had popped a spoke on
tuesday on that same wheel and had to have it trued. Well, there I was with

Your wheels were not properly tensioned and/or not stress relieved.
Helpful hot chick or not, your LBS is insufficient.

the wheel out of true again. I could do nothing to get the spoke back in.
Some out-of-town cyclist came by to offer a hand...he was training for an
Ironman event in Florida (we're in SC)...there was nothing he could do so he
wished my a good walk home...I was looking at about 11 miles....not too bad

I released the rear brake and tried to ride with the wheel out of true...it
all seemed to be working, so I made a U-turn in the middle of the road to
head for the meet point. But, alas, the rear wheel hung and --- what do you

How did the rear wheel hang? Was it so terrible untrue that it
couldn't rub past the released brake on one side?

know --- bamn! I was on the friggin pavement again! This time I felt a bit
defeated.

I would too.

I hurried to the LBS where the hot lady (who sold me my bike) managed to
rush my bike back so I can get it back by 3pm (hopefully, that was nice of
her to try, huh?). I discovered that my left palm is all swollen, too. Must
be from one of those falls....

Comments on how to avoid any more spills and what to do with a popped spoke
and an untrued wheel on a ride would be much appreciated. Somehow, I feel a
bit unsure if myself now....damn!

You don't have a spoke wrench, a multi-tool, or pliers? A broken
spoke can be removed, wrapped around the next spoke, zip-tied to the
next spoke, or whatever else it takes. An untrue wheel can be made
to ride sufficiently well for getting home with the brakes released;
just go at it with a spoke wrench (or the multi-tool's spoke wrench,
or the pliers) until it only rubs half-terribly on the released
brake.

For spills, make sure your cleats were installed correctly. They
could be installed backwards, or maybe wrong-sided. What kind of
pedals do you have? Finally, practice on the lawn, with your dog or
kids or parents running randomly in front of you from behind trees
to surprise you.

Also, disengage _before_ the [red light|turn|stop|whatever], even if
you're not sure it [the light] will be red. Nobody says you have to
stay engaged until the last possible second. You can ride disengaged
until you're sure you won't need a foot on the ground.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul wrote:

Well, Thursday I had cleats put in my shoes and I switched over to clipless
pedals.

[tales of tribulation trimmed]

Hmmm.

First, I agree that you don't need to be riding those wheels. At your
weight (which is really not tremendous) I think you'd be better off in a
more traditional wheel. 32 or 36 stainless steel spokes. I'm not fond
of the super-lightweight stuff that works only if conditions are ideal.

You can always keep these wheels for when you enter your first road race.


Second, I agree with Dan that some tools would have saved you. Get a
multi-tool, or at _least_ a 4mm, 5mm, & 6mm allen wrench to carry with
you. (You do carry tire tools, patch kit, pump, etc, right?) I've come
across other cyclists who had your exact experience with the rear spoke,
and they made it to the next town only because I showed them how to
loosen their brake.

A spoke wrench could have saved you too, but practice at home first on a
junk wheel. Spoke wrenches can be dangerous in the wrong hands. I once
knew a guy who started with a wheel that was a bit out of true, and
ended up with a potato chip.


Third, is there a chance that you wouldn't have these problems if the
bike shop lady wasn't quite so hot? ;-) Maybe it's a subconscious
thing. Maybe you need a bike shop with a grumpy old male owner!


Fourth: Don't worry, you'll get the un-clipping down pat. Or, maybe,
almost down pat. I have friends who still do that ten years later, but
by now they've got calluses on the parts that hit first, so it doesn't
bother them as much. ;-)

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 17:35:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:
The owner of the LBS (another lady, not the hot lady) told me that she
thinks I ride uphill in too high a gear, putting a lot of stress on the rear
wheel. I do generally tend to shift down as I go up a hill, but I also
follow the cadence, trying to keep it at or above 60.

The force is the same whether you're in a low gear with a high
cadence or a high gear with a low cadence. If you're climbing the
hill in a high gear with high cadence, then you're one powerful
*******.

The force everywhere between the tire's tread and the hub is exactly
whatever force is required to get your ass up that hill at your
speed. Changing gears cannot effect it, except if by changing gears
you are able to go faster.

Is she feeding me hooey?

100% hooey.
--
Rick Onanian

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Well, Thursday I had cleats put in my shoes and I switched over to
::: clipless pedals.
::
:: [tales of tribulation trimmed]
::
:: Hmmm.
::
:: First, I agree that you don't need to be riding those wheels. At
:: your weight (which is really not tremendous) I think you'd be better
:: off in a more traditional wheel. 32 or 36 stainless steel spokes.
:: I'm not fond
:: of the super-lightweight stuff that works only if conditions are
:: ideal.

Okay, noted...

::
:: You can always keep these wheels for when you enter your first road
:: race.
::

Funny...I've not even though about racing, even though I enjoy watching it
on the tube. My goals are to do the century rides and build up to decent
speed, and to keep the weight off (I've lost 130 lbs). At 46, I'm just not
too interested in racing, but I would like to be competitive...hmm...maybe
I'll have to race to be competitive....dang!

::
:: Second, I agree with Dan that some tools would have saved you. Get a
:: multi-tool, or at _least_ a 4mm, 5mm, & 6mm allen wrench to carry
:: with
:: you. (You do carry tire tools, patch kit, pump, etc, right?)

Yes...with a CO2 pump, which I have not used, BTW. I do have a set of allen
wrenches, but I didn't think to loosen the brake.

I've
:: come across other cyclists who had your exact experience with the
:: rear spoke,
:: and they made it to the next town only because I showed them how to
:: loosen their brake.

I'll learn!

::
:: A spoke wrench could have saved you too, but practice at home first
:: on a junk wheel. Spoke wrenches can be dangerous in the wrong
:: hands. I once knew a guy who started with a wheel that was a bit
:: out of true, and
:: ended up with a potato chip.

I hear ya..I was just looking at some on the performance website. I'm not
sure what size to get...

::
::
:: Third, is there a chance that you wouldn't have these problems if the
:: bike shop lady wasn't quite so hot? ;-) Maybe it's a subconscious
:: thing. Maybe you need a bike shop with a grumpy old male owner!

Naw...the hot lady is a saleperson (but an experienced mountain
bicycler...the mechanics are different people (they all are way into riding,
though). And the older, owner lady is the one with the "pushing in too high
a gear up hills" theory. Now, if she's feeding me hooey, I may have to
agree with needing a new LBS, but this is where i got the bike. They were
very helpful today in helping me get my bike back so I can fall some more
tomorrow am! I'm solo riding tomorrow.

::
::
:: Fourth: Don't worry, you'll get the un-clipping down pat. Or,
:: maybe, almost down pat. I have friends who still do that ten years
:: later, but
:: by now they've got calluses on the parts that hit first, so it
:: doesn't bother them as much. ;-)

I do like to not fall...I give a better impression that i'm not a total
noob on the bike! My riding buddy was a bit put off on the entire notion of
clipless pedals when I fell the second time. He's about 49 or 50...

Great comments/suggestions from all of you!