#21
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tubeless or tubes
On 4/5/2021 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. On that style tire, wet the bead set with soapy water or spray wax, cinch your belt or similar around the tire and inflate quickly. It will snap onto the seats. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#22
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tubeless or tubes
AMuzi wrote:
Lighter? A Michelin road tube is 65 grams. Four ounces of latex (minimum dose)is nearly twice that, plus a heavier valve assembly and on some rims a heavier rim liner as well. But, why latex and rim liners? If the tire fits the rim accurately, and the rim is airtight, neither is required. Are those two things infeasible with present manufacturing techniques? Thanks for reading, bob prohaska |
#23
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:06:18 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. On that style tire, wet the bead set with soapy water or spray wax, cinch your belt or similar around the tire and inflate quickly. It will snap onto the seats. Thanks, but that's not the problem. I have a rope and tourniquet derangement for doing what you describe. However, I didn't think about trying soap lube. I'll give that a try. The problem is that the rim is only 4.5 inches in diameter. The tire simply will not stretch enough to slip back over the rim. I tried three steel levers and bent two of them. I should have a "tire bead jack" somewhere, but can't find it. I probably loaned it to someone: "Tire Bead Jack - Installation of tight bike tire when all else fails" The Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack is a Gamechanger (1:47) https://www.albes.com/products/kool-stop-tire-bead-jack I'm not sure it will fit over the rather fat 3.3 inch wide hand truck tire. I'm also worried about breaking the plastic tool as the hand truck tire is really stiff. I may need to build something similar out of scrap metal. I can post photos if anyone wants to see the problem. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#24
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:19:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: I can post photos if anyone wants to see the problem. This is almost the exact same hand truck (dolly) that I have: "How to change flat tire on a moving dolly / Dolly repair/ Dolly Fix" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSDCVgkF3JU (1:36) However, the tire is a different tread pattern and design. It also seems far more flexible than mine. Also, I forgot to mention another advantage of tubeless tires. If you can't get the bead to set after changing the tire, just fill it with any kind of explosive gas (butane, propane, natural gas, etc) and ignite it. The expanding gases will seat the tire on the rim quite nicely. That doesn't work with an inner tube. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#25
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:49:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. I don't see the logic for tubeless tires on a garbage cart. I would think solid, or foam filled would be better... unless of course you are running down the street after the garbage truck shouting "Am I too late?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODEShfdxoR0 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. -- Cheers, John B. |
#26
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:33:00 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:19:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: I can post photos if anyone wants to see the problem. This is almost the exact same hand truck (dolly) that I have: "How to change flat tire on a moving dolly / Dolly repair/ Dolly Fix" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSDCVgkF3JU (1:36) However, the tire is a different tread pattern and design. It also seems far more flexible than mine. Digging some more, these look like they should work: "How to Mount a Small Tire on Wheel" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVi2qV0cKLg (2:29) Uses two C-clamps. "How to mount a small tractor tire with vice grips" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAWH89AgVdA (2:54) Clever methinks. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#27
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tubeless or tubes
On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:39:35 +0700, John B.
wrote: I don't see the logic for tubeless tires on a garbage cart. Tubeless is cheaper because there's no inner tubes. I paid $10/ea for the 4.10 x 3.50 inner tubes. My guess(tm) is that two inner tubes would have added $2 to the price of a $60 dolly. I would think solid, or foam filled would be better... I borrowed a hand truck that had something in the tires besides air. I have 50 stairs going up to the house. Going down those stairs, with a fully loaded 33 gallon trash can required a little care. When I did it with air filled tires, they sorta bounced down the stairs. With the borrowed hand truck, it felt like I was going to crack the stair treads. Air is compressible. Foam, not so compressible. I didn't break anything but I noticed that many nail heads were sticking out of the stair treads from the bouncing. That won't happen again because I replaced most of the nails with deck screws. unless of course you are running down the street after the garbage truck shouting "Am I too late?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODEShfdxoR0 Cute. In the left coast hills, on the US side of the pond, we do have an appropriately named garbage collection service: https://www.greenwaste.com/santa-cruz-county/ The green is apparently for greenbacks, not the ecology. I'm cheap and prefer to haul my refuse to the nearby transfer station in the back of my Subaru: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/Trash%20tight%20fit.jpg Three cans sorta fit with the lid inverted. I recycle as much as possible. My guess(tm) is about 12 trash cans per year. https://dpw.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/Home/RecyclingTrash/RecyclingandDisposalFacilities.aspx https://dpw.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/Portals/19/pdfs/recycles/2020-2021%20Santa%20Cruz%20County%20Fee%20Information%2 0Worksheet%20V3.pdf?ver=vZCsHWeR8uSqcTN7IuiF5w%3d% 3d $12.50 / 32 gallon trash can minus 10% for seniors. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#28
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 21:48:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:39:35 +0700, John B. wrote: I don't see the logic for tubeless tires on a garbage cart. Tubeless is cheaper because there's no inner tubes. I paid $10/ea for the 4.10 x 3.50 inner tubes. My guess(tm) is that two inner tubes would have added $2 to the price of a $60 dolly. I would think solid, or foam filled would be better... I borrowed a hand truck that had something in the tires besides air. I have 50 stairs going up to the house. Going down those stairs, with a fully loaded 33 gallon trash can required a little care. When I did it with air filled tires, they sorta bounced down the stairs. With the borrowed hand truck, it felt like I was going to crack the stair treads. Air is compressible. Foam, not so compressible. I didn't break anything but I noticed that many nail heads were sticking out of the stair treads from the bouncing. That won't happen again because I replaced most of the nails with deck screws. unless of course you are running down the street after the garbage truck shouting "Am I too late?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODEShfdxoR0 Cute. In the left coast hills, on the US side of the pond, we do have an appropriately named garbage collection service: https://www.greenwaste.com/santa-cruz-county/ The green is apparently for greenbacks, not the ecology. I'm cheap and prefer to haul my refuse to the nearby transfer station in the back of my Subaru: http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/Trash%20tight%20fit.jpg Three cans sorta fit with the lid inverted. I recycle as much as possible. My guess(tm) is about 12 trash cans per year. https://dpw.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/Home/RecyclingTrash/RecyclingandDisposalFacilities.aspx https://dpw.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/Portals/19/pdfs/recycles/2020-2021%20Santa%20Cruz%20County%20Fee%20Information%2 0Worksheet%20V3.pdf?ver=vZCsHWeR8uSqcTN7IuiF5w%3d% 3d $12.50 / 32 gallon trash can minus 10% for seniors. Most of your references won't load, or won't load here, or it is the wrong day of the year, or something, but I did connect with the Greenwaste site and as I read it you have to pay to have your garbage collected? Here the government, city/Town/whoever collects the garbage and hauls it off for free. In Bangkok you package it - black garbage bag will suffice, and set it outside the gate and it vanishes, several mornings a week. Here in the country, in out housing area, they set plastic 55 gallon drums on the street corners and you carry your garbage/trash out and put it in the drum. If I lived 50 steps up in the air I'd build a tram or sell the house :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#29
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tubeless or tubes
On Mon, 05 Apr 2021 21:48:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann scribed:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:39:35 +0700, John B. wrote: I don't see the logic for tubeless tires on a garbage cart. Tubeless is cheaper because there's no inner tubes. I paid $10/ea for the 4.10 x 3.50 inner tubes. My guess(tm) is that two inner tubes would have added $2 to the price of a $60 dolly. I would think solid, or foam filled would be better... I borrowed a hand truck that had something in the tires besides air. I have 50 stairs going up to the house. Going down those stairs, with a fully loaded 33 gallon trash can required a little care. When I did it with air filled tires, they sorta bounced down the stairs. With the borrowed hand truck, it felt like I was going to crack the stair treads. Air is compressible. Foam, not so compressible. I didn't break anything but I noticed that many nail heads were sticking out of the stair treads from the bouncing. That won't happen again because I replaced most of the nails with deck screws. Erk to 50 stairs. You could try a stair climbing truck if you want to remove the bounce, but the trade off is that there is no resting going down or up. It just keeps going unless you hold it back. |
#30
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tubeless or tubes
On Monday, April 5, 2021 at 8:49:46 p.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:29:26 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/5/2021 2:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I tried to check online for recent sales history for bicycle inner tubes. If there was a precipitous drop in inner tube sales, that would indicate that tubeless was taking over. However, with the pandemic and subsequent shortages, the few numbers I could find are probably distorted. You might check with your LBS and ask about relative bicycle sales with inner tube vs tubeless. That might give you a clue on trends and whether you're a minority member. The two things that draw some cyclists to tubeless are the expense and the inconvenience. You must be a member of the CCC (Cynical Cycling Club). Marginally related tube drivel: 1. I have an Ace Hardware garbage can hand truck with tubeless tires. They leak because the rims were painted. Leaving it outdoors for a while caused water to collect between the painted rim and the tire, which promptly rusted. The rust was uneven, so the tires leaked air. So, I bought two inner tubes for the tires. I won't go through the details, but removing the tires so that they straddle one edge of the rim, was almost impossible. I managed to get one tire off, and insert the inner tube. However, I can't get the tire back onto the rim. Tubeless hand truck tires are evil. 2. Last years CZU fire and subsequent wind storm(s) gave a big boost to the home repair business. One of the side effects is the various amateur and professional contractors tend to leave nails all over the road. This year, I picked up a nail in the tread, which I successfully plugged on my 3rd try. I expect to find more nails in my tires until after the construction is done. Yes, we sweep the road with a magnetic pickup tool, but the nails are good at hiding. Looking at the damage, I'm fairly sure that I would not have had a problem if my tire had an inner tube. 3. I'm on my last Nashbar leaky bicycle inner tube. I started with 6 cheap tubes, all of which have leaked to varying degrees. I'll soon need to make a decision as to whether to buy some more cheap tubes, some expensive better tubes, Slime Sealant, or go tubeless with sealant. Since I'm cheap, it will probably more cheap leaky tubes. -- Jeff Liebermann PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Aren't a lot of roofing nails an aluminium alloy and therefore not magnetic? Cheers |
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