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-   -   Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims (http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?t=227964)

Randall May 22nd 11 06:29 AM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
Allegations by Hincapie that he witnessed Lance dope might be enough
to indict. But convicting Armstrong in a trial is altogether a
different matter. I am uncertain that witnessing someone dope is
enough to convict him in a court of law. The blood samples could be
challenged on chain of evidence basis.

Brad Anders May 22nd 11 06:35 AM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
On May 21, 10:29*pm, Randall wrote:
Allegations by Hincapie that he witnessed Lance dope might be enough
to indict. But convicting Armstrong in a trial is altogether a
different matter. *I am uncertain that *witnessing someone dope is
enough to convict him in a court of law. The blood samples could be
challenged on chain of evidence basis.


e.g. half a dozen or more teammates say they saw him dope. Half a
dozen say they never saw him dope. LA's lawyers say, well, if he doped
as much as they say, then he'd surely have tested positive (yeah,
Anton, we know about the French tests on the old samples, different
way they'll go after those), where are the positive tests? As you say,
more is needed.

And for the billionth time - everyone knows LA doped. Proving it, and
linking it to criminal behavior is a completely different matter.

Mike May 22nd 11 10:57 AM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?

Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
states in the USA).

I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
it's all the same people involved.

There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.

VELOPORK.COM

Randall May 22nd 11 05:36 PM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
The prosecutors are not going to find any records of money being sent
if Bruyneel had any brains. $15 million is a lot of money for drugs.
The money was probably exchanged in person if such a transaction
occurred at all. The bike sales were most likely to raise extra money
for the team. Pro teams require a huge amount of money and any extra
helps.

On May 22, 2:57*am, Mike wrote:
Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?

Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
states in the USA).

I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
it's all the same people involved.

There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.

VELOPORK.COM



Fred Flintstein May 22nd 11 06:25 PM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
On 5/22/2011 4:57 AM, Mike wrote:
Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?


Dumbass,

Seriously, you're a dumbass. Paying money to Dr Ferrari for
a doping program is not an illegal act. Again I say it, I
know of someone that makes a comfortable living in the US
doing that. The feds took two cracks at him, they struck out
twice. Now they leave him the hell alone.

If there is a money trail it doesn't ****ing matter.

F

Anton Berlin May 22nd 11 09:30 PM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
On May 22, 4:57*am, Mike wrote:
Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?

Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
states in the USA).

I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
it's all the same people involved.

There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.

VELOPORK.COM


There's a money trail. It's tough to move that much cash one way or
another. Novitsky is one of the best at following money trails.

Anton Berlin May 22nd 11 09:31 PM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
On May 22, 12:25*pm, Fred Flintstein
wrote:
On 5/22/2011 4:57 AM, Mike wrote:

Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?


Dumbass,

Seriously, you're a dumbass. Paying money to Dr Ferrari for
a doping program is not an illegal act. Again I say it, I
know of someone that makes a comfortable living in the US
doing that. The feds took two cracks at him, they struck out
twice. Now they leave him the hell alone.

If there is a money trail it doesn't ****ing matter.

F


Want to bet you're totally ****ing wrong ?

Trey May 22nd 11 09:38 PM

Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
 
On May 22, 2:57*am, Mike wrote:
Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?

Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
states in the USA).

I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
it's all the same people involved.

There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.

VELOPORK.COM


Testa? I've never heard his name brought up before this wrt doping.
Any links on this? BTW I agree with most everything else you posted.
Thanks for posting.


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