There ARE more adults riding bikes

:::
::
:: Well, when I started riding I rode down a main thorough fair to get
:: to the parking lots. Then I would ride loops in the parking lots.
:: Then back to the side walk to ride the wrong way to get back home.
::
:: Then one day I learned that one of my neighbors was a long-time
:: cyclist. So, he took me out on my first road ride. I just followed
:: him and did what he did. I found it was basically a matter of
:: driving a bike like driving a car. That's what got me over my fear
:: of riding on the road.
::
:: BTW, this nieghbor just passed way two days ago due to cancer.


People will live forever so long as one person remembers....

::
:: I commute to work on a bike--seven miles in each direction. There's
:: about a two-mile stretch coming home where I use a sidewalk. It's
:: rare that anyone actually uses it for walking, and on the rare
:: occasion that I do see someone, I yield to them. I'm not a novice
:: cyclist, and I've read some of Forester's stuff, but I've picked
:: myself out of ditches a couple times to avoid getting creamed. The
:: roadway is not wide enough to share a lane, and if you take it, the
:: driver's will pass close enough to scare the hell out of you just to
:: make a point.
::
:: Dave Clary
:: Corpus Christi, TX

I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those "I break the rules of the road
because I feel threatened!" threads, because everyone has to make up his own
mind when breaking the traffic rules is necessary. I am talking about
people who are riding the sidewalks when there is a bike lane right
alongside them! Or when the street is so deserted that a bike could have the
entire lane with cars passing by in one of the other two lanes going that
direction. Yesterday, I saw a woman riding her bike on the sidewalk, and
with this particular sidewalk, there are stretches where no sidewalk exists.
So, she would be riding on the grass and rocks until she could get back on
the sidewalk, whereas I was riding in my bike lane right beside her! When I
went by, she looked up, startled. I got the impression from her face that
she was thinking, "You're allowed to ride on the street surface?"

Pat in TX

On Oct 13, 9:55*am, "PatTX" wrote:
::
:: I commute to work on a bike--seven miles in each direction. *There's
:: about a two-mile stretch coming home where I use a sidewalk. *It's
:: rare that anyone actually uses it for walking, and on the rare
:: occasion that I do see someone, I yield to them. *I'm not a novice
:: cyclist, and I've read some of Forester's stuff, but I've picked
:: myself out of ditches a couple times to avoid getting creamed. *The
:: roadway is not wide enough to share a lane, and if you take it, the
:: driver's will pass close enough to scare the hell out of you just to
:: make a point.
::
:: Dave Clary
:: Corpus Christi, TX

I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those "I break the rules of the road
because I feel threatened!" threads, because everyone has to make up his own
mind when breaking the traffic rules is necessary. *I am talking about
people who are riding the sidewalks when there is a bike lane right
alongside them! Or when the street is so deserted that a bike could have the
entire lane with cars passing by in one of the other two lanes going that
direction. Yesterday, I saw a woman riding her bike on the sidewalk, and
with this particular sidewalk, there are stretches where no sidewalk exists.
So, she would be riding on the grass and rocks until she could get back on
the sidewalk, whereas I was riding in my bike lane right beside her! When I
went by, she looked up, startled. I got the impression from her face that
she was thinking, "You're allowed to ride on the street surface?"

Based on my experience, everything Pat says is also true without bike
lanes. They are not a requirement, whether the street is deserted or
no. Ordinary roads are fine.

And regarding Dave Clary's post: We've gotten dozens of similar posts
over the years, with about half of them coming from one colorful
individual. The general idea is always "You don't know how dangerous
it is to ride HERE! If you were here, you'd [ride on the sidewalk /
ride facing traffic / run traffic lights / stop every time a car gets
near / etc.]"

From what I see, over 99% of people who do those things are riding in
places where competent cyclists ride normally and safely. I suppose
it's not absolutely impossible that they're in some amazingly unusual
situation. But I strongly doubt it.

- Frank Krygowski

Tom Keats wrote:
I guess it's good when people ride bicycles at all. *I'm
all for that, and supportive of anyone who wants to ride.

Being meddlingly officious at people often just makes 'em
dig-in their heels and stubbornly adhere to their
preconceived ways.

Live and let live.


Up to a point, but not when their wrong-way riding puts me in
jeopardy.

Another thing is that many new cyclists tend to travel the same main
roads on which they would normally drive a car instead of looking for
more bike friendly parallel routes.

Art Harris

In article ,
Art Harris writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
I guess it's good when people ride bicycles at all. *I'm
all for that, and supportive of anyone who wants to ride.

Being meddlingly officious at people often just makes 'em
dig-in their heels and stubbornly adhere to their
preconceived ways.

Live and let live.

Up to a point, but not when their wrong-way riding puts me in
jeopardy.

Nevertheless, verbally censuring such folx while
en passant hardly ever seems to be effective,
except for evoking a rather vulgar response
from them. I've had conversations with people
who are adamantly convinced that WW riding is
appropriate and correct; they've expressed appalled
amazement and doubted my sanity when I've tried to
convince them otherwise.

We have a local publication (free for the taking at
auto insurance offices) called: BikeSense.
The online version is available he

http://www.bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm

I show it to WW riders, and they say the booklet is
all wrong. We're dealing with a stone wall of denial.

I think one of the worst situations is where a bike
lane exists only on one side of a bi-directional
road or street. Some riders will assume the single
bike lane is also bi-directional.

On a number of Vancouver's bridges, riding on the
sidewalks is actually encouraged and mandated, to
get riders off the roadway portion of the bridge.
Etiquette dictates riders should ride on the side
of the bridge appropriate to their direction. But
of course one always encounters riders coming the
other way. I'm going the "right" way, but I always
seem to be the guy who lets the the wrong way people
by. I'm such a wimp, but I'm leery of bridges anyway.
Especially when my saddle is higher than the guardrail.

Another thing is that many new cyclists tend to travel the same main
roads on which they would normally drive a car instead of looking for
more bike friendly parallel routes.

A lot of people just have to learn the hard way.
In fact, they insist upon it. I guess that's
their right.

I hate having to contend with wrong-way riders
in my line, too. The ones I usually encounter
are very scruffy looking (and smelling,) often
conversing with imaginary companions, and their
bikes are festooned with green garbage bags full
of cans & bottles to be cashed-in at the recycling
depot. It doesn't take much to set some of these
folks off on an irrational tirade.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats wrote:
Live and let live.

Up to a point, but not when their wrong-way riding puts me in
jeopardy.

Nevertheless, verbally censuring such folx while
en passant hardly ever seems to be effective,


Years ago many people were taught that they should ride facing traffic
(same as walking against traffic) because it was safer (you can see
the cars coming). It's hard to change long held beliefs.

Since I only have their ear for a few seconds, I try to nicely say,
"You're riding on the wrong side. You're going to cause an accident."
I doubt that it makes a difference, but you never know. If every
cyclist they passed said that, they might eventually get the message.

Also, some folks who normally ride on the right will cut over the left
side to make a left turn. I don't get the logic of this, but it's a
pretty popular gambit. Maybe they're afraid of dealing with an
intersection, or maybe it's a way to avoid stopping for a red light.

I think one of the worst situations is where a bike
lane exists only on one side of a bi-directional
road or street. *Some riders will assume the single
bike lane is also bi-directional.


I agree. There's a road near me with good bike lanes. Once there was
construction that closed the bike lane on the side I was using. There
was actually a sign saying to use the opposite bike lane as a detour.
One of the construction guys yelled at me to use the other bike lane.
I ignored him and am glad I did as I saw several cyclists riding the
other way on it.

There's another road I ride on that only has a bike lane on one side,
and cyclists are expected to use it regardless of their direction of
travel. And there are some blind curves!

Art Harris

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:30:24 -0700, Art Harris wrote:


Since I only have their ear for a few seconds, I try to nicely say,
"You're riding on the wrong side. You're going to cause an accident." I
doubt that it makes a difference, but you never know. If every cyclist
they passed said that, they might eventually get the message.

A traffic ticket and actual police enforcement would be far more
effective at getting the word out. As would a number of fatal accidents
in which news reports prominently highlighted the fact that "the cyclist
was riding opposite the flow of traffic, and thus was struck and killed."

It's only too bad that contributory negligence is on its way out as a
legal doctrine, as well, because having an automobile driver claim that
the cyclist he struck was riding the wrong way would have immunized the
car driver from liability--since, by riding the wrong way, the cyclist
would have been deemed to have 'contributed' to his injury, and thus
would be legally barred from the 'profits' of that contribution.

People don't learn until they get hurt. People don't cycle until driving
is impossible or prohibitively expensive.

--Luigi





--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

Tom Keats wrote:
[...]
I think one of the worst situations is where a bike
lane exists only on one side of a bi-directional
road or street. Some riders will assume the single
bike lane is also bi-directional.

Riding against traffic in one of these "bicycle lanes" is a great way to
get run over by left turning motorists.

On a number of Vancouver's bridges, riding on the
sidewalks is actually encouraged and mandated, to
get riders off the roadway portion of the bridge.
Etiquette dictates riders should ride on the side
of the bridge appropriate to their direction. But
of course one always encounters riders coming the
other way. I'm going the "right" way, but I always
seem to be the guy who lets the the wrong way people
by. I'm such a wimp, but I'm leery of bridges anyway.
Especially when my saddle is higher than the guardrail.

Wear a PFD or get 'bent. [1]

Another thing is that many new cyclists tend to travel the same main
roads on which they would normally drive a car instead of looking for
more bike friendly parallel routes.

A lot of people just have to learn the hard way.
In fact, they insist upon it. I guess that's
their right.[...]

I find the main arterials more bicycle friendly in many cases, or at
least street with enough traffic that intersections with arterials are
controlled by traffic signals. Crossing multiple lanes of higher speed
traffic at low speed is not my idea of bicycle friendly. Riding on the
major streets also lessens the number of motorists that pull out in
front of you.

[1] "It's a joke, son."

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

On 2008-10-13, Tom Keats wrote:

In article ,
John Thompson writes:

I yell out "welcome to America! We ride *with* the traffic here!"

I guess it's good when people ride bicycles at all. I'm
all for that, and supportive of anyone who wants to ride.

Being meddlingly officious at people often just makes 'em
dig-in their heels and stubbornly adhere to their
preconceived ways.

I don't consider it to be "meddlingly officious;" I think it's a safety
issue -- theirs *and mine!*

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And regarding Dave Clary's post: We've gotten dozens of similar posts
over the years, with about half of them coming from one colorful
individual. The general idea is always "You don't know how dangerous
it is to ride HERE! If you were here, you'd [ride on the sidewalk /
ride facing traffic / run traffic lights / stop every time a car gets
near / etc.]"

From what I see, over 99% of people who do those things are riding in
places where competent cyclists ride normally and safely. I suppose
it's not absolutely impossible that they're in some amazingly unusual
situation. But I strongly doubt it.

- Frank Krygowski

Believe what you want but I've ridden extensively in Las Vegas, raced
and trained in Berlin for three years, toured in Denmark and the
Netherlands, and was a bike club president for two years in west
Texas. I never felt like I was doing something dangerous in those
settings. That changed when I moved here. Once I was taking a right
turn when a car turning left cut the corner and was coming right at
me. I literally had to dive into a roadside ditch to avoid getting
hit. And the guy yelled at me as I was lying there with my bike on
top of me.

I do ride in the street the vast majority of the time here, but I
several incidents coming home when traffic was heavy, where drivers
had to wait to pass me, and they cut it very close and blasted their
horns as they went by. They probably never would hit me, but it still
makes for a very uncomfortable ride. So for that short stretch, where
the sidewalk goes mainly by undeveloped property, I use it.

Dave Clary
Corpus Christi, TX