There ARE more adults riding bikes

On Oct 13, 8:51 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Oct 13, 2:34 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:



I hate having to contend with wrong-way riders
in my line, too. The ones I usually encounter
are very scruffy looking (and smelling,) often
conversing with imaginary companions, and their
bikes are festooned with green garbage bags full
of cans & bottles to be cashed-in at the recycling
depot.

And they probably post a lot on Usenet, too!

It doesn't take much to set some of these
folks off on an irrational tirade.

Q.E.D.

- Frank Krygowski

Yes, that is probably me that you're talking about... and it's not
just aluminum, I recycle my brass too. You would be wise not to
accost me with any holier than thou BS.

Then again, even I have trouble defending wrong way riding.

On Oct 13, 8:30 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:41:48 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

wrote:
And regarding Dave Clary's post: We've gotten dozens of similar posts
over the years, with about half of them coming from one colorful
individual. The general idea is always "You don't know how dangerous
it is to ride HERE! If you were here, you'd [ride on the sidewalk /
ride facing traffic / run traffic lights / stop every time a car gets
near / etc.]"

From what I see, over 99% of people who do those things are riding in
places where competent cyclists ride normally and safely. I suppose
it's not absolutely impossible that they're in some amazingly unusual
situation. But I strongly doubt it.

- Frank Krygowski

Believe what you want but I've ridden extensively in Las Vegas, raced
and trained in Berlin for three years, toured in Denmark and the
Netherlands, and was a bike club president for two years in west
Texas. I never felt like I was doing something dangerous in those
settings. That changed when I moved here. Once I was taking a right
turn when a car turning left cut the corner and was coming right at
me. I literally had to dive into a roadside ditch to avoid getting
hit. And the guy yelled at me as I was lying there with my bike on
top of me.

I do ride in the street the vast majority of the time here, but I
several incidents coming home when traffic was heavy, where drivers
had to wait to pass me, and they cut it very close and blasted their
horns as they went by. They probably never would hit me, but it still
makes for a very uncomfortable ride. So for that short stretch, where
the sidewalk goes mainly by undeveloped property, I use it.

Dave Clary
Corpus Christi, TX

Yeah, when I'm on the road I don't take crap from crackers with loaded
suburbans pointed right at me... I'm surely not gonna take similar
unsolicited advice from some skinny tired sports enthusiasts that
don't even have luggage when I choose to ride on the sidewalk. You
use your own judgment, it's been working this far.

The flip side of this coin is that you can't be giving crap (no matter
how witty you think it to be) to people riding down the stripe between
two rows of cars that are waiting for the light to change. Their lack
of judgment will catch up with them eventually.

"PatTX" wrote in message
...
:
: I know I've seen a wrong way rider crash a red light while cutting
: diagonally through a four way intersection directly in front of a cop
: car, and the cops did nothing at all. I've seen cops pass wrong way
: riders, and riders with no lights at night, and do nothing at all.
: Yet I've heard cops give speeches on how important helmets are.
:
: But we have no MHLs here, so I suppose it's not a fair test.
:
: - Frank Krygowski

I don't know if you are talking about seeing the wrong way rider while you
were on a bike or in your car. I have seen cops ignore things that car
drivers did right in front of them! Once, I counted the cars with only one
headlight on my way to numerous referee meetings. Finally, I asked a cop,
"Why don't you ticket those cars?" and he replied, "Well, by the time I
see the car with only one headlight, I'd have to make a U-turn and go back
and try to find him. It's just too much trouble!" I was astonished
because I had seen numbers in the mid-20's of cars at night with only one
headlight--and that was just while on my way from Severna Park to
Columbia! So, by the time I returned home, I had seen upwards of 40 cars
driving with only one headlight.


A driver can have a blown headlight for months without even noticing it.
Again, that's not nearly a serious an infraction as someone driving
wrecklessly. I'd rather they hunt down those who are drunk or wreckless than
to bother with tracking down every driver with just one headlight. Let's
not forget the gas they'd use up if they tried to hound all one-eyed driver.

WWR fall into a similar group as those who drive with one headlight.


I, too, have been in the car and have seen cops passing bicyclists without
a light at night and just ignoring the situation. And, that's just plain
dangerous! Why don't cops enforce laws on bicyclists? Dunno.

Pat in TX

In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Tom Keats wrote:
In article ,
Frank Krygowski writes:
On Oct 13, 2:34 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

I hate having to contend with wrong-way riders
in my line, too. The ones I usually encounter
are very scruffy looking (and smelling,) often
conversing with imaginary companions, and their
bikes are festooned with green garbage bags full
of cans & bottles to be cashed-in at the recycling
depot.
And they probably post a lot on Usenet, too!
It doesn't take much to set some of these
folks off on an irrational tirade.
Q.E.D.

I seem to stand accused of poor-bashing.
Perhaps some context will vindicate me:

http://tinyurl.com/4s8yau
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4s8yau

in full: http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=12d1dfbd-1395-490c-836e-4ba794c7167f

Past & present Provincial governments here have
seen fit to severely cut back needed support of
mentally distressed individuals.

That is what you get for imitating the US.

No imitation. Canada is not the Utopia so many
OtherWorlders think it is.

Back in the '70s we had all kinds of mental health
safety net, but that went by the wayside since the
Recession of the early '80s and the "downsizing"
trend of the early-mid '90s. These fellow citizens
find themselves unemployable and unhousable, and out
on the streets, trying to eke by as best they can, often
by collecting returnable cans & bottles (we have
deposits on returnable cans & bottles here.) There's
a /lot/ of these so-called "street people" here, and
cans & bottles are often their main sources of income.
You'd be hard pressed to find an empty beer or pop can
on the streets of Vancouver.

"Social Darwinism" in action.

Classism, anyway.

"Social Darwinism?!" Darwinian evolution is about
selective propagation, not selective depletion of
species. If Chas. Darwin was alive today I think
he'd be fascinated by the intricate adaptations
of cephalopods, and saddened by the prevalence
of human misery.

[...]
For what it's worth, a lot of street people with
mental issues find themselves suspected of having
addled their brains with drugs, when in reality
they've sustained on-the-job brain injuries that
have rendered them unable to continue with the
only kind of work they've ever known.

They should have chosen to be born economically independent. No mercy
for those who do not choose to have rich parents. end sarcasm

Some of the street people with un-tended mental issues
here /do/ have rich parents. And I know one particular
person who ran a successful business, until there was
a house fire in which his son died. He blames himself,
and decided he should suffer deprivation for the rest
of his life for it. He has an imaginary companion
with whom he sometimes argues. The only people taking
care of him now is the Salvation Army.

Wealth is not a perfect defence against the onslaughts
of the world. Not even for Conrad Black.

British Columbia's main industries involve extraction
of raw resources -- timber, fish, minerals and tourists.
It's often dangerous work.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Oct 14, 6:06*pm, DennisTheBald wrote:
On Oct 13, 9:41 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:



On Oct 13, 9:55 am, "PatTX" wrote:

::
:: I commute to work on a bike--seven miles in each direction. *There's
:: about a two-mile stretch coming home where I use a sidewalk. *It's
:: rare that anyone actually uses it for walking, and on the rare
:: occasion that I do see someone, I yield to them. *I'm not a novice
:: cyclist, and I've read some of Forester's stuff, but I've picked
:: myself out of ditches a couple times to avoid getting creamed. *The
:: roadway is not wide enough to share a lane, and if you take it, the
:: driver's will pass close enough to scare the hell out of you just to
:: make a point.
::
:: Dave Clary
:: Corpus Christi, TX

I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those "I break the rules of the road
because I feel threatened!" threads, because everyone has to make up his own
mind when breaking the traffic rules is necessary. *I am talking about
people who are riding the sidewalks when there is a bike lane right
alongside them! Or when the street is so deserted that a bike could have the
entire lane with cars passing by in one of the other two lanes going that
direction. Yesterday, I saw a woman riding her bike on the sidewalk, and
with this particular sidewalk, there are stretches where no sidewalk exists.
So, she would be riding on the grass and rocks until she could get back on
the sidewalk, whereas I was riding in my bike lane right beside her! When I
went by, she looked up, startled. I got the impression from her face that
she was thinking, "You're allowed to ride on the street surface?"

Based on my experience, everything Pat says is also true without bike
lanes. *They are not a requirement, whether the street is deserted or
no. *Ordinary roads are fine.

And regarding Dave Clary's post: *We've gotten dozens of similar posts
over the years, with about half of them coming from one colorful
individual. *The general idea is always "You don't know how dangerous
it is to ride HERE! *If you were here, you'd [ride on the sidewalk /
ride facing traffic / run traffic lights / stop every time a car gets
near / etc.]"

From what I see, over 99% of people who do those things are riding in
places where competent cyclists ride normally and safely. *I suppose
it's not absolutely impossible that they're in some amazingly unusual
situation. *But I strongly doubt it.

- Frank Krygowski

You presume that the only reason anyone would ride anywhere but the
road is that they are scared of the cars. *I assure you this is not
the only situation where riding the sidewalk is warranted. *But if you
are going to ride on the sidewalk - were legal or not - you have a
moral obligation not to run down the unwheeled gits that you share it
with.

Sorry, I didn't presume what you say. I was reacting to a poster who
specifically said why he rode on the sidewalk - because he was scared
of the cars.

FWIW, I agree that there are some times where riding on a sidewalk is
reasonable. But I believe those times are fairly uncommon. I also
believe the vast majority of sidewalk riding happens because people
are unduly afraid of cars, and that the vast majority of sidewalk
riders don't understand that they are probably in more danger than if
they were in the street.

- Frank Krygowski

On Oct 14, 6:35*pm, DennisTheBald wrote:
On Oct 13, 8:51 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:



On Oct 13, 2:34 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

I hate having to contend with wrong-way riders
in my line, too. *The ones I usually encounter
are very scruffy looking (and smelling,) often
conversing with imaginary companions, and their
bikes are festooned with green garbage bags full
of cans & bottles to be cashed-in at the recycling
depot.

And they probably post a lot on Usenet, too!

It doesn't take much to set some of these
folks off on an irrational tirade.

Q.E.D.

- Frank Krygowski

Yes, that is probably me that you're talking about... and it's not
just aluminum, I recycle my brass too. *You would be wise not to
accost me with any holier than thou BS.

Sheesh! That was a joke! Did you not notice that I post to Usenet
too??

- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:45:34 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:


Sorry, I didn't presume what you say. I was reacting to a poster who
specifically said why he rode on the sidewalk - because he was scared
of the cars.

No, what I said specifically was I wanted to avoid some drivers who
intentionally pass close to cyclists with the intention of scaring
them.

Dave Clary
Corpus Christi, TX

Again, that's not nearly a serious an infraction as someone driving
wrecklessly.

I've been driving wrecklessly for years %)
--
mac the naïf

On Oct 14, 11:37*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:45:34 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

wrote:

Sorry, I didn't presume what you say. *I was reacting to a poster who
specifically said why he rode on the sidewalk - because he was scared
of the cars.

No, what I said specifically was I wanted to avoid some drivers who
intentionally pass close to cyclists with the intention of scaring
them. *

Hmm. Can you explain the difference? I don't see it.

- Frank Krygowski

On Oct 13, 7:56 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Oct 13, 4:54 pm, Luigi de Guzman wrote:

Likewise, when our village got its first bike cop, I saw him riding
wrong way, and very, very carefully mentioned it - something like "Um,
you realize you were violating the law there, right?" He said
"Really? You know, I've had people ask me which side of the road a
bike's supposed to ride on, and I didn't know what to tell them."

In most places with bike cops these days there are laws on the books
exempting them from normal traffic laws.