Light dawns...

Claire Petersky wrote:
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
|| But if you keep going back for trivial reasons you'll
|| get her attention attention.

Okay....I'll try that.

Yeah, either you'll get her attention attention, or she'll report you as a
stalker.

The only difference between a stalker and a suitor is the
stalker has been told "no".

--Blair
"They both won't listen when they hear it..."

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:44:55 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
|| On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:53:31 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
|| wrote:
||
||| I suggest that you start on the trainer, or if no trainer, in an
||||| empty parking lot or somewhere similar. Once you know how to clip
||||| in
||||| and out, then you can begin to ride.
|||
||| I did all of this. I spent two hours at teh LBS on the trainer...I
||| left when the starting making grumbling noises But the cute
||| bike shop girl probably doesn't suspect that I was just trying to
||| be in her presense (well, that too).
||
|| I'm -so- glad you chirped in here, b/c I don't know if I'd have
|| thought of that, getting on the trainer at the LBS and making sure
|| the shoes were snug and the cleats adjusted, and that my knee
|| wouldn't be hurting. Don't think they'll let me go 2 hours....you're
|| kidding right? Either that or you're exceptionally charming.
|| Anyway, Brilliant!
||

No, I'm not kidding Being nice, smiling a lot, and spending money all
seem to work. Honestly, I really wanted to ask the girl out, but since she's
10 years younger than I, I chickened out Maybe next year.

snip

Dude, by all means do not let that stop you. To a one, all of the
women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than I said that they
specifically prefer older men. Let her decide. Go for it.


Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:34:05 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

Roger Zoul wrote:

I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

{snip}

When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
do.

Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
something's going on that you could work on to correct.

Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

What I would like to ask at this juncture is (since I don't
understand, seriously) what would one be trying to prevent by using
such systems?

I'm confused by having to "clip" and "unclip" on a "clipless" system,
additionally. I've never fully understood pedal retention systems.

Thanks.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Michael J. Klein wrote:

To a one, all of the women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than
I said that they specifically prefer older men.


Those bunny ranch places train 'em to say that.

Bill "bigger tips (I say TIPS)" S.

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:27:15 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

Michael J. Klein wrote:

To a one, all of the women I've dated who were 15 to 20 years younger than
I said that they specifically prefer older men.


Those bunny ranch places train 'em to say that.

Bill "bigger tips (I say TIPS)" S.

Bill, its the little things in life....

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

In article ,
Michael J. Klein wrote:

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:34:05 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

Roger Zoul wrote:

I thought I could just clip out one feet and lean on that foot. That
was after 4 miles. Then, after about 20 miles, the same damn thing
happened again and I had been careful to fully clip out both feet.

{snip}

When I unclip, I unclip both feet. Period.

Not to be critical, Roger, but you really shouldn't have to do that.
Unclipping one foot and putting it down when stopped is what 99.9% of riders
do.

Are you falling because your free foot SLIPS on the pavement (or trail)? Or
are you simply losing balance? (Saddle way too high, maybe?) Sounds like
something's going on that you could work on to correct.

Bill "unclipping both feet sounds MORE unstable (at least to me)" S.

What I would like to ask at this juncture is (since I don't
understand, seriously) what would one be trying to prevent by using
such systems?

The short answer is that clipless pedals give you a solid, safe, and
convenient link to the pedals.

-solid: the pedals are firmly held to your feet. Under normal
circumstances, which especially includes sprinting or any type of
serious effort, your feet are locked to the pedals, and you will not
lose contact with them. Having a foot slip off a pedal during a sprint
(or even during normal riding) is not only inefficient, it's very likely
to lead to a crash. This solid connection is so important that before
clipless pedals, pro cyclists and serious tourists universally used
clips and straps.

-safe: so clipless pedals offer the solid, efficient connection of clips
and straps. But unlike clips and straps, release is easy. With a
cleated, strapped, toe-clip solution, a rider had to unstrap their foot
at every rest stop, and in the event of a crash, it was unlikely that
you could free your feet from the bike, leading to some possibly
unpleasant injuries, mostly revolving around twisted ankles and knees.
Clipless, despite offering the solidity and virtually all of the
security of clips and straps, are much easier to get into and out of,
and virtually all systems have a natural tendency to release in a crash.

-convenient: it's easy to enter and exit clipless shoes. There's no
dance as you come to the stoplight to make sure you can remove at least
one foot from your pedals. There's no similar dance when you re-start
and need to tighten up your strap again. With most pedal designs, you
just step on the pedal with your shoe, and listen for the click. Exiting
is usually a matter of twisting your ankle slightly outward or inward.

I'm confused by having to "clip" and "unclip" on a "clipless" system,
additionally. I've never fully understood pedal retention systems.

It's a tragedy of terminology. Since the old system of retaining pedals
had toe-clips, and the new one did not, it was clearly a "clipless"
system. You "clip in" because clicking into the retention mechanism is
analgous to putting your toe into the toe clip, and thus the old phrase
lives on.

Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
over most of the the clips and straps market.

Not going back,
--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:


Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
over most of the the clips and straps market.

Yet there are benefits to the "loose clips and straps" method,
especially on a utility or commuting bike.

I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!

Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
(about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
(about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
about my footwear.

Am I less efficient? Hard to say. Before the big switch to clipless, I
was stronger than almost all the guys I ride with. After they made the
switch and I didn't, I was still stronger. If it helped them, it must
not have helped much!


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:


Clipless rocks. I started out using un-cleated toe clips and loose
straps when I began commuting. This was an adequate system, but when
combined with a fairly soft-soled shoe, it wasn't ideal. A pair of
stiff-soled cycling shoes helped a lot, and I added some clipless pedals
at the same time. Compared to the loose straps of before, the clipless
pedals offered securer foot retention (you can slip your foot out
backwards by accident in loose straps) greater efficiency (cleats that
locked your foot in place were key to the retention and efficiency of
clip-and-strap systems; I wasn't going to risk that), and ease of entry
and exit (loose-strapped toe clips probably aren't notably harder to
stick your foot into than a clipless pedal is to clip your foot to, but
they are less efficient). Since clipless combined power and efficiency
that matched strapped clips with the ease of entry and exit of loose toe
clips, plus a dose of safety neither system had, it immediately took
over most of the the clips and straps market.

Yet there are benefits to the "loose clips and straps" method,
especially on a utility or commuting bike.

I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!

I don't know about you, but I am in socks or bare feet most of the time
in my house. Going outside usually means putting on some pair of shoes,
it's just a matter of which ones.

I am standardized on SPDs, so they are usable for walking, though I
would want something other than my stiff-soled bike shoes for anything
longer than a stroll around the mall. That said, I had a problem on my
bike yesterday which saw me walk a couple of miles to my destination.
The really funny part was that I, walking in SPD shoes, towing my
flat-tired bike, was able to keep pace with an extraordinarily slow
jogger for about a mile. I think she finally got a block ahead of me.

Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
(about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
(about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
about my footwear.

Much more than my footwear, my sweaty body limits my ability to jump on
a bike without thinking. I actually do have a bike with flat pedals
around, and frequently use it for short, lazy neighbourhood trips. Once
I'm up to a 30-minute round trip on the bike, though, I prefer to wear
"technical" synthetics to deal with sweat and such, and that means
changing into bike clothes. Work is a half-hour away (12 km or so, but
on a hilly route), and I consider a shower and change mandatory after
that ride. I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

Am I less efficient? Hard to say. Before the big switch to clipless, I
was stronger than almost all the guys I ride with. After they made the
switch and I didn't, I was still stronger. If it helped them, it must
not have helped much!

it's a marginal performance advantage, but I really enjoyed the comfort
and safety advantages of clipless over loose clips, especially when
using walkable systems like SPD or Eggbeaters.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

I try to keep that bike ready for use as a practical vehicle. That
means I want it to be as easy to use as my car. And I can't imagine
having to put on a particular pair of shoes to drive my car!


I don't know about you, but I am in socks or bare feet most of the time
in my house. Going outside usually means putting on some pair of shoes,
it's just a matter of which ones.

Not me. For whatever reason, I'm shod from morning till night.
Different strokes, I guess.

Clips and straps allow me to jump on my bike and ride to the library
(about 3 blocks away) or the grocery (about 1 mile away) or the mall
(about 3 miles away) or work (about 7 miles away) without even thinking
about my footwear.


Much more than my footwear, my sweaty body limits my ability to jump on
a bike without thinking. I actually do have a bike with flat pedals
around, and frequently use it for short, lazy neighbourhood trips. Once
I'm up to a 30-minute round trip on the bike, though, I prefer to wear
"technical" synthetics to deal with sweat and such, and that means
changing into bike clothes. Work is a half-hour away (12 km or so, but
on a hilly route), and I consider a shower and change mandatory after
that ride. I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

Yes, my work is also half an hour away. The tough climb is on the way
home, and depending on my route choice, I'll have between one and three
smaller hills on the way in. I get there a little sweaty - but no so
much that it bothers me or anyone else. (Trust me, I've checked.) I've
never needed to take a shower, although they're available about 1/4 mile
away.

I appreciate making cycling a "normal" part of life. For me, that
includes normal clothes, normal shoes, and at least one bike that's
always ready to ride with no special preparation, etc.

As I said, different strokes.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
...

I keep a pair of shoes at work, just like Mr. Rogers did.

Pair? Singular pair?

If you open up one of my file drawers at work, you'll find one pair black,
one pair navy, one pair bone, and one pair tan, plus a pair of tennis shoes
I keep in the back in case we have an earthquake.

The nice thing about really only wearing your work shoes in the office
(maybe a for a block or two on the street to get lunch, if you didn't put it
in your bike bag) is that they hardly show any wear. I bought this last set
of pumps in the above colors (I keep the red ones at home) at a Nordstrom's
half-yearly sale now years ago, and they are still doing quite well. I tend
to buy all my clothes in pretty standard, classic colors/styles so I can
ignore the fashions when they go in and out. Probably saves quite a bit of
money.


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky