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#1
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear
track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... Thanks, mickster |
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#2
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
"mickster" wrote in message oups.com... I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... This sounds like the axle locknuts do not have sufficient serrations to grip the inside faces of the dropouts. You can try alternating the tightening of the axle nuts by small increments from drive to non-drive side up to the required tightness. Phil H |
#3
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
mickster wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... As Phil said, the locknuts aren't biting sufficiently. I'd add that some hubs solve this problem quite elegantly; Goldtec use a large-diameter axle which is ground flat at the ends so it just fits the track end and can't rotate. Their "locknuts" (they use cartridge bearings) are nitrided and are exceptionally sharp-toothed. |
#4
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
"Phil Holman" piholmanc@yourservice wrote in message
... "mickster" wrote in message oups.com... I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... This sounds like the axle locknuts do not have sufficient serrations to grip the inside faces of the dropouts. You can try alternating the tightening of the axle nuts by small increments from drive to non-drive side up to the required tightness. Phil H Ditto what Phil stated, but you might find using a Chain tensioner device like the Surley Tugnut http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=5132 very useful too. I have had problems when overpowering powering the crankarms with the axle slipping forward. So having something to prevent this works well too. Besides it makes it easier to tighten the axles without over torquing the axle nuts. There are several different makes of these chain tensioner devices out there too. |
#5
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
Earl Bollinger wrote:
Ditto what Phil stated, but you might find using a Chain tensioner device like the Surley Tugnut http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=5132 very useful too. I have had problems when overpowering powering the crankarms with the axle slipping forward. So having something to prevent this works well too. Besides it makes it easier to tighten the axles without over torquing the axle nuts. There are several different makes of these chain tensioner devices out there too. Any idea if those things work with forward-facing horizontal dropouts? My guess is 'no' but it'd be awesome if they did. TIA \\paul |
#6
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
mickster wrote: I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... Thanks, mickster There's a good chance your dropouts aren't aligned right. If not, tightening the axle nut will force the hub to realign relative to the dropout. If only one side is out of whack, tighten the other side first, then the bad side won't affect the chain tension as it can't/won't move. If they're both out of alignment, you need to have them realigned. Actually, you should have that done if only one is bad. If the dropouts are parallel to each other and aligned with the BB, AND you're using good quality axle nuts (as you indicated you are) there should be no forces to account for the axle to move upon tightening the axle nut. S. |
#7
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
If your locknuts are slipping, then you have a locknut/cone problem.
If you slack the locknut, is it dry? Drop a little oil on the threads under the locknut/cone. Also your always going to have the tighten the non-drive side first to get the chain tention correct, then after the drive side is locked into the frame you might have to slack the non-drive side to center the wheel. I have built many wheels with Suzue hubs and have never had that problem. -Tim |
#8
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
mickster wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... Poor prep. Open the hub far enough to get oil on the axle where cone and locknut will lock. On both sides. Fill the bearing space with grease while you are there. Get some oil in the tracknut where the ring spins. Mostly, get some lube on that axle before tightening the axle nuts. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#9
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
In article , Paul Hobson
) wrote: Earl Bollinger wrote: Ditto what Phil stated, but you might find using a Chain tensioner device like the Surley Tugnut http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=5132 very useful too. I have had problems when overpowering powering the crankarms with the axle slipping forward. So having something to prevent this works well too. Besides it makes it easier to tighten the axles without over torquing the axle nuts. There are several different makes of these chain tensioner devices out there too. Any idea if those things work with forward-facing horizontal dropouts? My guess is 'no' but it'd be awesome if they did. Yes, they /do/ work with horizontal dropouts. It's a bit of a faff if the P+nct+r+ Fairy comes a-visiting, but that's better than having the rear wheel attempting to escape... -- Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ We had that Maurits C. Escher in to do some building work once. I haven't been able to leave the house since. |
#10
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Axle slipping when tightening track hub axle nut
mickster wrote: I'm experiencing a problem when tightening the axle nuts on a new rear track hub. The hub is a rear Suzue Pro Max carbon-fibre track hub which uses a 10mm axle and good quality, captive washer track nuts. As the rear axle nut starts to snug against the rear dropouts, the hub axle begins to turn in the dropout, causing the whole hub to creep backwards in the dropout. Thsi makes it extremely difficult to get the chain tension right - it also seems to be causing the locknut and cone on one side of the hub to start turning relative to the axle, which messes up the bearing adjustment on the hub. Hold the wheel aft. tighten the left side just a smidge, then the right, holding the wheel back. It will tighten w/o moving, just gotta hold the wheel aft. The axle nuts have the integrated rotating washer. a wee bit of oil onto the washer will help also. Make sure the locknut for adjusting the cones/bearings is really tight. Adjustment should not go away as you tighten the wheel. Probably oughta take the whole thing apart and add grease, even tho it's cart bearings. I've tried tightening the locknut against the cone so that its really tight, but the bearings still go out of adjustment. I've tried degreasing the rear dropouts and the surfaces of the serrated locknut and axle nuts, and lubricated the threads of the axle to try to dissuade the axle from turning but the problem persists. The problem seems to definitely be with the hub as it happens on both my track frames - one with regular (and well-roughened) steel dropouts, the other an alloy frame with stainless steel dropout inserts - and my other set of wheels with a D-Ace track hub don't have the problem in either frame. Is this a particular problem with Suzue track hubs and if so does anyone have any suggestions as to how it can be solved? I'm wondering about fitting a pair of serrated locknuts from a Shimano D-Ace track hub onto the Suzues, as my guess is that these are the likely culprits... Thanks, mickster |
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