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Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn inChicago



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 08, 03:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute
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Posts: 433
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn inChicago

Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.
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  #2  
Old March 11th 08, 03:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay[_2_]
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Posts: 741
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn in Chicago


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.

Thanks, Andre, for your kind thoughts;

I am quite thrilled! with my new Electra, which you and the other RBT
experts pointed me toward. ...when I was going in the wrong direction
(again), I somehow righted myself, with your help. It is parked in my
kitchen - no garage for this beauty! Plus, I need to apply Proofide to this
new saddle, at room temp. My bum is a bit sore from today, but IMO Brooks
saddles are for men, who can handle a little pain. Hey, life is pain...get
used to it!

Comparing the Electra with a BF is not a fair fight. BF would throw in the
towel early on.

I will post pics of my fully customized Electra in a week or so, on my
website. I want to have all the spec'ed stuff in place.

On the way home today, I saw a few bike riders. They were ALL riding quite
upright, with drop handlebars. But for those who want to call me Fred, go
ahead. I like riding upright. I can see what is going on. This Electra is
stylin'.

J.


  #3  
Old March 11th 08, 04:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute
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Posts: 433
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

On Mar 11, 2:00*am, Andre Jute wrote:
Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.


Jay also wrote in the other thread:
I think this 'faux Dutch bike" Electra will be just fine, for what I need.


Of course it will.

But I wouldn't call it a "faux Dutch bike" too loudly if I were you.
The chances are that it was built in Taiwan *right next to Dutch bikes
with famous Dutch names sold to Dutch people in The Netherlands*.

Gazelle make a big, big thing of still building most of their own
frames, but most of the Dutch makers buy their frames in. And a big
name in Dutch bikes in the Netherlands is, wait for, Giant, who
everyone knows is Taiwanese.

The irony is that my Trek Cyber Nexus is probably more of a Dutch bike
than almost anything you can buy in The Netherlands except Gazelle --
because Trek still build their own and, like Gazelle again, Trek fit
custom components from their own component house, Bontrager.

Thus today the Dutch city bike is more of a concept and a geographical
description of *greatest concentration of usage* rather than
necessarily a locus of manufacture.

So, I would say whether Jay's Amsterdam is a genuine Dutch city bike
depends on the geometry and the components a lot more than on where it
was built or for whom. My guess is that investigation will show that
Electra's Amsterdam Royal is a real Dutch city bike, merely built for
an American firm to be sold in the States. I would not be surprised at
all if Lou were to tell us it looks and is specced amazingly like such
and such a Dutch brand name's upper-level bike that just
coincidentally (!) happens to be built in the same factory in Taiwan
as Electra's Amsterdam.

If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like
a duck, and the innards are the innards of a duck, but is found in
Chicago -- it is a duck, but found in Chicago.

AN ASIDE ON ESTABLISHING A DUTCH CITY BIKE MARKETING NICHE: In my
never humble opinion, Electra would be amazingly stupid to enter this
(presenty) low unit sales but high margin and high growth-potential
section of the market any other way than by chinese copy of a proven
design and specification; some of the earlier bikes Jay looked at were
designed by guys who though they were smarter than the Dutch, like Joe
Breezer, and they shot themselves in the foot; Electra will take more
than its fair share of this market in the States, precisely because
they were cautious and unadventurous, mark my words.

Andre Jute
When I rule the world, there will be a tax on hairsplitting, and a
bigger tax on log rolling, because it subverts the political process
by giving pressure groups power over the majority
  #4  
Old March 11th 08, 08:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman
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Posts: 627
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 11, 2:00 am, Andre Jute wrote:
Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.


Jay also wrote in the other thread:
I think this 'faux Dutch bike" Electra will be just fine, for what I need.


Of course it will.

But I wouldn't call it a "faux Dutch bike" too loudly if I were you.
The chances are that it was built in Taiwan *right next to Dutch bikes
with famous Dutch names sold to Dutch people in The Netherlands*.

Gazelle make a big, big thing of still building most of their own
frames, but most of the Dutch makers buy their frames in. And a big
name in Dutch bikes in the Netherlands is, wait for, Giant, who
everyone knows is Taiwanese.

The irony is that my Trek Cyber Nexus is probably more of a Dutch bike
than almost anything you can buy in The Netherlands except Gazelle --
because Trek still build their own and, like Gazelle again, Trek fit
custom components from their own component house, Bontrager.

Thus today the Dutch city bike is more of a concept and a geographical
description of *greatest concentration of usage* rather than
necessarily a locus of manufacture.

So, I would say whether Jay's Amsterdam is a genuine Dutch city bike
depends on the geometry and the components a lot more than on where it
was built or for whom. My guess is that investigation will show that
Electra's Amsterdam Royal is a real Dutch city bike, merely built for
an American firm to be sold in the States. I would not be surprised at
all if Lou were to tell us it looks and is specced amazingly like such
and such a Dutch brand name's upper-level bike that just
coincidentally (!) happens to be built in the same factory in Taiwan
as Electra's Amsterdam.



To my knowledge there are no more Dutch bicycle companies who build
there own frames. Maybe some steel models are still made here. Almost
all aluminum frames are specd here but welded in the Far East. The bare
frames come over in large quantities and are painted and put together
over here. Some companies are large enough to customize some parts like,
handlebars, seats, stems etc but most are off the shelf parts from the
parts companies like Shimano. IMHO you can put together a typical
'Dutch' style bike anywhere in the world. Just spec it the same way.
Here are some links to the major Dutch bike companies:

http://www.gazelle.nl/nl/
http://www.batavus.nl/
http://www.koga.com/

A smaller company almost in my backyard is:

http://www.rih.nl/
I visited it several times. There is a nice video on the website showing
exactly what they do:

http://www.rih.nl/site/bedrijf/video/index.php

Just click around and enjoy.

Lou


It has a nice vie
  #5  
Old March 11th 08, 10:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 433
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

On Mar 11, 7:54*am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Mar 11, 2:00 am, Andre Jute wrote:
Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).


Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever


(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.


Jay also wrote in the other thread:
I think this 'faux Dutch bike" Electra will be just fine, for what I need.


Of course it will.


But I wouldn't call it a "faux Dutch bike" too loudly if I were you.
The chances are that it was built in Taiwan *right next to Dutch bikes
with famous Dutch names sold to Dutch people in The Netherlands*.


Gazelle make a big, big thing of still building most of their own
frames, but most of the Dutch makers buy their frames in. And a big
name in Dutch bikes in the Netherlands is, wait for, Giant, who
everyone knows is Taiwanese.


The irony is that my Trek Cyber Nexus is probably more of a Dutch bike
than almost anything you can buy in The Netherlands except Gazelle --
because Trek still build their own and, like Gazelle again, Trek fit
custom components from their own component house, Bontrager.


Thus today the Dutch city bike is more of a concept and a geographical
description of *greatest concentration of usage* rather than
necessarily a locus of manufacture.


So, I would say whether Jay's Amsterdam is a genuine Dutch city bike
depends on the geometry and the components a lot more than on where it
was built or for whom. My guess is that investigation will show that
Electra's Amsterdam Royal is a real Dutch city bike, merely built for
an American firm to be sold in the States. I would not be surprised at
all if Lou were to tell us it looks and is specced amazingly like such
and such a Dutch brand name's upper-level bike that just
coincidentally (!) happens to be built in the same factory in Taiwan
as Electra's Amsterdam.


To my knowledge there are no more Dutch bicycle companies who build
there own frames. Maybe some steel models are still made here. Almost
all aluminum frames are specd here but welded in the Far East. The bare
frames come over in large quantities and are painted and put together
over here. Some companies are large enough to customize some parts like,
handlebars, seats, stems etc but most are off the shelf parts from the
parts companies like Shimano. IMHO you can put together a typical
'Dutch' style bike anywhere in the world. Just spec it the same way.
Here are some links to the major Dutch bike companies:

http://www.gazelle.nl/nl/
http://www.batavus.nl/
http://www.koga.com/

Thanks for the information, Lou. What I thought.

A smaller company almost in my backyard is:

http://www.rih.nl/
I visited it several times. There is a nice video on the website showing
exactly what they do:

http://www.rih.nl/site/bedrijf/video/index.php


A super movie. I looked into the RIH Prisma (city sports with hub
gears and rear roller/front disc brakes) before I bought my Gazelle
Toulouse, but landed it would have cost twice what the Gazelle cost.
But what a beautifully executed bike, especially that smooth welding,
and the conformable leather grips:
http://www.rih.nl/site/modellen/pris...ving/index.php

Just click around and enjoy.

Lou

It has a nice vie


Indeed. Thanks for taking the trouble to inform the fans, Lou. We
appreciate it.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
  #6  
Old March 13th 08, 08:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

On Mar 10, 7:44*pm, "Jay" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

... Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).


Andre Jute
Dutchcity bikes forever


(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.


Thanks, Andre, for your kind thoughts;

I am quite thrilled! with my new Electra, which you and the other RBT
experts pointed me toward. ...when I was going in the wrong direction
(again), I somehow righted myself, with your help. It is parked in my
kitchen - no garage for this beauty! Plus, I need to apply Proofide to this
new saddle, at room temp. My bum is a bit sore from today, but IMO Brooks
saddles are for men, who can handle a little pain. Hey, life is pain...get
used to it!

Comparing the Electra with a BF is not a fair fight. BF would throw in the
towel early on.

I will post pics of my fully customized Electra in a week or so, on my
website. I want to have all the spec'ed stuff in place.

On the way home today, I saw a few bike riders. They were ALL riding quite
upright, with drop handlebars. But for those who want to call me Fred, go
ahead. I like riding upright. I can see what is going on. This Electra is
stylin'.

J.



I'm at the Taipei Cycle show and there are quite a few Dutch commuter
bicycles here, including some real hauler type bikes." The response to
"are you selling in the U.S.?" is always the same, "no, no shops will
take the risk." They sell a lot of units to visitors to the
Netherlands who ship them back.
  #7  
Old March 14th 08, 01:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jay[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 741
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn in Chicago


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
Congratulations on collecting your new Electra Amsterdam, Jay. Tell us
all about it (1).

Andre Jute
Dutch city bikes forever

(1) I saw a brief note in another thread about a broken folder, but
the momentous occasion of your grown-up commuter should be proudly
marked in a thread of its own.


I expect to get most of my spec'ed parts from RTC tomorrow (Fri 14-Mar). I
know RBT folks are impatient to see how this bike turned out, but I just
can't take pics of these stock grips. And I need the extra long seat post to
mount my DiNotte taillight and the Arkel seatbag, etc. I do not want to
waste RBT's time on a half-baked Electra. Especially not when this bike will
be a very important part of my commuting life for years to come.

I do think the stock Electra taillight is a puny piece of crap, not on a par
with the other bike components. But I will have redundant head and tail
lights, especially for winter use. So this is not a big deal.

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.

J.


  #8  
Old March 14th 08, 12:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Peter Cole[_2_]
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Posts: 4,572
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

Jay wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.


That's the mantra, just keep chanting.
  #9  
Old March 14th 08, 03:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Luke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 342
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is reborn in Chicago

In article , Jay
wrote:

And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.

J.


Paying extra for the privilege of discomfort. Sounds like you want to
earn a case of hemorrhoids as well. But what do I know. Far from
aggravating discomfort, my opting for a B17 actually alleviated it.
  #10  
Old March 14th 08, 03:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
landotter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,336
Default Jay's new Electra Amsterdam "Fred": a Dutch city bike is rebornin Chicago

On Mar 14, 6:33*am, Peter Cole wrote:
Jay wrote:
And my bum gets a little sore late in the day. But IMO, one must *earn* a
new Brooks saddle. Wimps buy whatever else, often at greater cost, and
shorter life. Brooks saddles are an acquired taste.


That's the mantra, just keep chanting.


You can gimbal mount Tibetan prayer wheels to your handlebars as well!

Velo makes the most marvelous sporty city saddles IMHO these days:

http://www.velosaddles.com/products_...cat_id=6&id=33

Nice wide support. Cut away base,so you never bottom out. Cushy with
no numb bits. Narrow nose. Cheap. About $25. Yeah, it's ugly, but you
sit on it.

 




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