Commuting: Changing Clothes?

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On Oct 30, 12:20 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
wrote in message

...

You know, that sounds like a lot of fun at first, but then I remember
that's what they make snowmobiles for. Silence? Bah! turn it off to
sip the flask from time to time. Alternate that nice silence with the
beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor.

Mmm, snowmobiles. Have me reaching for the RPG every time.

RPG? I assume you don't mean the grenade (unless you're way more
sarcastic or full of it than I give you credit for), so clue me in,
wouldya?

No, I meant the grenade.

Same treatment, same reasons as for motorcyclists tearing up the trails
round here. (note tearing up != riding). I was rather hoping you were being
sarcastic when you said "the beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor" - hateful
horrible things.

I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements explained.

On Oct 30, 12:46 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Oct 30, 12:20 pm, "Clive George" wrote:

wrote in message

...

You know, that sounds like a lot of fun at first, but then I remember
that's what they make snowmobiles for. Silence? Bah! turn it off to
sip the flask from time to time. Alternate that nice silence with the
beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor.

Mmm, snowmobiles. Have me reaching for the RPG every time.

RPG? I assume you don't mean the grenade (unless you're way more
sarcastic or full of it than I give you credit for), so clue me in,
wouldya?

No, I meant the grenade.

Better hope you're a good shot. Of course, you don't actually have
RPGs, so it's all just fantasy, but around the areas I ride shooting
at people would get you shot back at, and/or arrested.


Same treatment, same reasons as for motorcyclists tearing up the trails
round here. (note tearing up != riding).

So you're ok with trails designated for your recreations of choice,
but trails designated for others recreation of choice are not cool?
Your way is good, all others bad. Got it.
FYI, the public ATV & dirt bike spots in NH would be totally
unsuitable for bicycling. There are biking trails, walking trails,
and ATV trails. Different uses for different folks.

Also, sleds are said to "groom" trials. The snowmobile trails are as
smooth as a paid-access ski spot. Some actually are groomed. Skiers
get it for free, because it's all paid for by the snowmobile clubs and
registration.

Now, people riding off-trail and ripping up private land and such
isn't cool. But in the spots where it's intended, I really see
nothing wrong with it, unless you're just a Mikey V type with your
sights adjusted a bit differently.


I was rather hoping you were being
sarcastic when you said "the beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor" - hateful
horrible things.

The picture of my dirt bike should have tipped you off. Lovely
things. Nothing like the smell of race fuel in the morning! I'll
admit that some pipes, restricted "race only" pipes like the Shorty
304 that came on my used bike are obnoxious. However, legit, forestry
approved, low dB pipes such as the FMF Q (stands for quiet series) I
installed on my bike sound great.


I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements explained.

Nope, I get it now. Damn shame, but no confusion.

wrote in message
...
On Oct 30, 12:46 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Oct 30, 12:20 pm, "Clive George" wrote:

wrote in message

...

You know, that sounds like a lot of fun at first, but then I remember
that's what they make snowmobiles for. Silence? Bah! turn it off to
sip the flask from time to time. Alternate that nice silence with the
beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor.

Mmm, snowmobiles. Have me reaching for the RPG every time.

RPG? I assume you don't mean the grenade (unless you're way more
sarcastic or full of it than I give you credit for), so clue me in,
wouldya?

No, I meant the grenade.

Better hope you're a good shot. Of course, you don't actually have
RPGs, so it's all just fantasy, but around the areas I ride shooting
at people would get you shot back at, and/or arrested.

I wonder if that's linked to your reaction - you're in an area where
firearms are normal, so people take mention of them seriously. Of course an
RPG is just fantasy - as is any firearm in my case.

Same treatment, same reasons as for motorcyclists tearing up the trails
round here. (note tearing up != riding).

So you're ok with trails designated for your recreations of choice,
but trails designated for others recreation of choice are not cool?
Your way is good, all others bad. Got it.

No you've completely and utterly missed it. I'd hoped I wouldn't need to put
in the boring caveats - but you do seem to be deliberately taking the worst
possible opinion of what I've written.

FYI, the public ATV & dirt bike spots in NH would be totally
unsuitable for bicycling. There are biking trails, walking trails,
and ATV trails. Different uses for different folks.

Round here it's all shared.

Now, people riding off-trail and ripping up private land and such
isn't cool. But in the spots where it's intended, I really see
nothing wrong with it, unless you're just a Mikey V type with your
sights adjusted a bit differently.

Come here and I'll show you trails being ripped up by motorbikes.

I was rather hoping you were being
sarcastic when you said "the beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor" -
hateful
horrible things.

The picture of my dirt bike should have tipped you off. Lovely
things. Nothing like the smell of race fuel in the morning! I'll
admit that some pipes, restricted "race only" pipes like the Shorty
304 that came on my used bike are obnoxious.

Unfortunately there's rather a lot of such things in use by people who don't
care as much as you.

However, legit, forestry
approved, low dB pipes such as the FMF Q (stands for quiet series) I
installed on my bike sound great.

I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements explained.

Nope, I get it now. Damn shame, but no confusion.

No, you don't get it.

On Oct 30, 1:02*am, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
" considered Wed, 29 Oct 2008
19:41:44 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:




First, catch your critter

This time of year, the squirrels are just asking to become garments!

MD

On Oct 30, 1:18 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
Better hope you're a good shot. Of course, you don't actually have
RPGs, so it's all just fantasy, but around the areas I ride shooting
at people would get you shot back at, and/or arrested.

I wonder if that's linked to your reaction - you're in an area where
firearms are normal, so people take mention of them seriously. Of course an
RPG is just fantasy - as is any firearm in my case.

I’d guess it is. I live in an area where more people are armed than
not. Threats of shootings are not taken lightly. Sure, there are
your illegal gangbanging scumbags here and there, but there are a lot
more responsible firearm owners and enthusiasts. I know many people
who couldn’t live, literally, If they couldn’t hunt. They live on
farms handed down generation to generation, and sell just enough to
get by. They count on the meat, furs, etc. of what they hunt for food
and income. I have close friends who fit this description – great
people who wouldn’t hesitate to give a stranger the shirt off their
back or push you out of a ditch in a blizzard. Guns are a normal part
of life for these people. So are ATVs. Heck, ATVs with gun racks are
pretty common in my area. Of course, so is a pickup pulling up the
the bar with a deer in the bed, and guys in full camp strolling in for
a beer. Not that this is the boondocks or anything, mind you
Seriously, call it what you want, it’s a lifestyle I love and wouldn’t
ever want to leave. City folk can keep city life. I’ll visit when I
want a fix.



Same treatment, same reasons as for motorcyclists tearing up the trails
round here. (note tearing up != riding).

So you're ok with trails designated for your recreations of choice,
but trails designated for others recreation of choice are not cool?
Your way is good, all others bad. Got it.

No you've completely and utterly missed it. I'd hoped I wouldn't need to put
in the boring caveats - but you do seem to be deliberately taking the worst
possible opinion of what I've written.

Sounded to me like the typical anti-ATV, anti-dirt bike, anti-sled
nazi. I’m willing to hear you out if you care to discuss it.


FYI, the public ATV & dirt bike spots in NH would be totally
unsuitable for bicycling. There are biking trails, walking trails,
and ATV trails. Different uses for different folks.

Round here it's all shared.

That’s a shame. Where is round there? Personally, I feel there
should be areas designated for specific uses. Birdwatchers don’t want
loud MTB groups blasting by any more than cyclists want dirt bikes
blasting by. Of course, shared multi-use is good too, but there needs
to be both. Around here they rangers make sure people are behaved.
You need to be registered. They sound-check every bike that passes,
and if you’re running a shorty 304 the ticket will cost more than my Q
series silencer did. Get reckless passing people and you’ll get
written up for reckless. This stuff almost never happens though, for
the most part people are respectful of each other and co-exist quite
well. When out on the dirt bikes we slow for hikers and cyclists to
avoid roosting or dusting them out, and pull over and shut down for
horses to avoid spooking the animal. We ride bikes with legal
exhausts in a reasonable fashion. And when we want to go to a big pit
and catch some big air, there are places for that. Places we won’t
run into anyone trying to have a nice ride on their horse or take
their kid & stroller out for some nature.


Now, people riding off-trail and ripping up private land and such
isn't cool. But in the spots where it's intended, I really see
nothing wrong with it, unless you're just a Mikey V type with your
sights adjusted a bit differently.

Come here and I'll show you trails being ripped up by motorbikes.

I don’t doubt it happens some places. It’s a shame. At the same
time, I could show you wetlands ripped up by pedal bikes. I don’t
blame all pedal bikes or group them all together as terrible because
of the poor actions of some. I know there are good cyclists like
myself and presumably you out there who don’t belong in that group of
dirtbags. Perhaps you should consider the same when it comes to two
strokes. They’re not all “hateful, horrible things”. Neither are all
their riders.


I was rather hoping you were being
sarcastic when you said "the beautiful sounds of a 2 stroke motor" -
hateful
horrible things.

The picture of my dirt bike should have tipped you off. Lovely
things. Nothing like the smell of race fuel in the morning! I'll
admit that some pipes, restricted "race only" pipes like the Shorty
304 that came on my used bike are obnoxious.

Unfortunately there's rather a lot of such things in use by people who don't
care as much as you.

This is true, and we (local clubs and responsible riders) work to
educate. We’ve got fish & game and rangers helping enforce as well.
It seems the less of a legit system there is, the more completely
offensive and outlandish outlaw behavior there is. My bike came from
MA, a place which has had almost all legal riding shut down. The
result is that people still ride, but the only rule is “make sure
you’re faster than the cops, and always know a few ways out”. Go to
NH, where there’s legal riding a’plenty, and you’ll find people going
out of their way to be legal, respectful, and keep what they have
preserved.


However, legit, forestry
approved, low dB pipes such as the FMF Q (stands for quiet series) I
installed on my bike sound great.
I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements explained.

Nope, I get it now. Damn shame, but no confusion.

No, you don't get it

So maybe what I should get is that you live in an area with no
reasonable outlet for these sports, so they run outlaw style. Big
surprise. Perhaps if there was a system like ours in NH in place,
you’d find things a whole lot different. When I was a kid in MA there
was legal riding all over, and rules that were abided (including 5MPH
road shoulder riding to get from trail to trail within so many feet,
like diagonal crossings). Now that everything is illegal, people are
wide-open on the street because the object is no longer be respectful
and safe, it’s get off the street and back into the woods as fast as
possible to minimize the chances a cop sees you.

On Oct 30, 1:02*am, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
" considered Wed, 29 Oct 2008
19:41:44 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:




First, catch your critter

This time of year, the squirrels are just asking to become garments!

MD

On 10/30/2008 10:38 AM wrote:

[unfortunate quarrel about motorized vs non-motorized usage of backcountry
snipped]

Well, thanks guys for hijacking my thread about needing to learn new
biking skills and habits so I can ride the roads hereabouts in winter.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

On 10/30/2008 10:41 AM wrote:

On Oct 30, 1:02 am, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
" considered Wed, 29 Oct 2008
19:41:44 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:




First, catch your critter

This time of year, the squirrels are just asking to become garments!

MD


Hey.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
Bend, Oregon

wrote in message
...

City folk can keep city life. I’ll visit when I want a fix.

I'm not in the city.

Sounded to me like the typical anti-ATV, anti-dirt bike, anti-sled
nazi.

Only because that's what you wanted to hear.

FYI, the public ATV & dirt bike spots in NH would be totally
unsuitable for bicycling. There are biking trails, walking trails,
and ATV trails. Different uses for different folks.

Round here it's all shared.

That’s a shame. Where is round there? Personally, I feel there
should be areas designated for specific uses.

Won't fit. Yorkshire Dales (and the rest of the country). It's rather more
populated over here - even the rural bits aren't wilds. Pretty much the
entire country has been shaped by man - eg there's almost no original
woodland left, no nasty wild critters, etc.

The trail network is somewhat older than the USA :-) Bridleways, footpaths,
etc - evolved as routes to get places, not designed as places to play. Happy
accident that a lot of them are suitable for the latter.

Around here they rangers make sure people are behaved.

Don't get rangers here.

Come here and I'll show you trails being ripped up by motorbikes.

I don’t doubt it happens some places. It’s a shame.

It's getting better - motor vehicles have been banned from some of the more
popular trails, and they're definitely improving.

It's sad though to see something like Mastiles lane - 35 years ago
apparently you could still see the original Roman stones making it. Since
then it's been wrecked by motorbikes and 4x4s. It's one of the ones which
has done well for the ban.

At the same
time, I could show you wetlands ripped up by pedal bikes. I don’t
blame all pedal bikes or group them all together as terrible because
of the poor actions of some.

Now, there you go, assuming the worst. You normally strike me as a
fun-loving relaxed kind of a guy, so why come over so massively defensive?

I know there are good cyclists like
myself and presumably you out there who don’t belong in that group of
dirtbags. Perhaps you should consider the same when it comes to two
strokes. They’re not all “hateful, horrible things”.

Now try not to take offence at this - remember, I'm talking about the
engine, which isn't you. I hate 2 strokes. Nasty, smelly, tend to be noisy.
I've got a 4-stroke brush cutter for this reason, rather than the more
popular 2-stroke.

I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements
explained.

Nope, I get it now. Damn shame, but no confusion.

No, you don't get it

So maybe what I should get is that you live in an area with no
reasonable outlet for these sports, so they run outlaw style.

No, it's not like that either. The ".co.uk" should have tipped you off to
the fact I'm posting from a different country to yours, where the norms are
rather different.

On Oct 30, 2:00 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
wrote in message

...

City folk can keep city life. I’ll visit when I want a fix.

I'm not in the city.

Wasn’t saying you were, was making a statement about how I feel about
the areas I live.


Sounded to me like the typical anti-ATV, anti-dirt bike, anti-sled
nazi.

Only because that's what you wanted to hear.

Actually, it’s really what I was hoping not to hear. I often discuss
multi-use issues with people, and prefer when we see eye to eye.
There’s no pleasure for me in being reminded of the anti-ATV crowd and
their #’s, as it just closes down more and more riding spots. I saw
it happen in MA.


FYI, the public ATV & dirt bike spots in NH would be totally
unsuitable for bicycling. There are biking trails, walking trails,
and ATV trails. Different uses for different folks.

Round here it's all shared.

That’s a shame. Where is round there? Personally, I feel there
should be areas designated for specific uses.

Won't fit. Yorkshire Dales (and the rest of the country). It's rather more
populated over here - even the rural bits aren't wilds. Pretty much the
entire country has been shaped by man - eg there's almost no original
woodland left, no nasty wild critters, etc.

The trail network is somewhat older than the USA :-) Bridleways, footpaths,
etc - evolved as routes to get places, not designed as places to play. Happy
accident that a lot of them are suitable for the latter.

I didn’t realize that you were posting from the UK. Entirely
different situation, we’re talking apples and oranges here. At this
point I suppose we can let Mike have his thread back.


Around here they rangers make sure people are behaved.

Don't get rangers here.

Come here and I'll show you trails being ripped up by motorbikes.

I don’t doubt it happens some places. It’s a shame.

It's getting better - motor vehicles have been banned from some of the more
popular trails, and they're definitely improving.

It's sad though to see something like Mastiles lane - 35 years ago
apparently you could still see the original Roman stones making it. Since
then it's been wrecked by motorbikes and 4x4s. It's one of the ones which
has done well for the ban.

At the same
time, I could show you wetlands ripped up by pedal bikes. I don’t
blame all pedal bikes or group them all together as terrible because
of the poor actions of some.

Now, there you go, assuming the worst. You normally strike me as a
fun-loving relaxed kind of a guy, so why come over so massively defensive?

Because it reads to me as though you’re attacking users of motorized
off-road vehicles. I, and a good portion of my friends, are said
users. If course, understanding now you’re coming from the UK changes
things quite a bit. If you lived in NH or Utah and had this
perspective I’d be more inclined to continue the defense/fight.


I know there are good cyclists like
myself and presumably you out there who don’t belong in that group of
dirtbags. Perhaps you should consider the same when it comes to two
strokes. They’re not all “hateful, horrible things”.

Now try not to take offence at this - remember, I'm talking about the
engine, which isn't you. I hate 2 strokes. Nasty, smelly, tend to be noisy.
I've got a 4-stroke brush cutter for this reason, rather than the more
popular 2-stroke.

Fair enough there. It’s opinion though. Have you smelled & heard a 2
stroke that was properly carbed & jetted, running race fuel, with a
good silencer? The tone is quite low, more like a 4 stroke than your
typical poorly muffled 2 stroke. The race gas smells sweet, kind of
like a dragway (go figure). But hey, you don’t have to like it
because I do.


I'll assume you don't need the boring caveats to my statements
explained.

Nope, I get it now. Damn shame, but no confusion.

No, you don't get it

So maybe what I should get is that you live in an area with no
reasonable outlet for these sports, so they run outlaw style.

No, it's not like that either. The ".co.uk" should have tipped you off to
the fact I'm posting from a different country to yours, where the norms are
rather different.

Indeed, and I think a lot of this misunderstanding if not all of it
was based on my missing that. What say we put this behind us and let
Mike have his thread back?

Hey Mike, I’ll be checking out the local Army/Navy surplus shop for a
faux fur navigator/trekker hat tonight. Wish me luck! When the
entire winter ensemble is complete, from hat to pants to boots to
pipe, I’ll have to put up a few pics.