Hood position

"Brendo" wrote in message
u...
Artoi wrote:
In article ,
Brendo wrote:


Michael Warner wrote:
(SNIP)

If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.

The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you
don't
have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front hub'
thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside the bar.
Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted tomorrow and see how
things go. For $30 it can't get any worse, and it might just be the start
of something beautiful. (riding the bike more, not hooking up with one of
the LBS staff)


I read elsewhere that the position to check this is to have your hands in
the drop position. Sounds like there's some confusion here. Another one
I've read is that while over the hood and looking ahead, one's eyes
should be right over the bar at the head of the stem. Or maybe it's all
just an approximation.
--

So basically, where ever your head is, it shouldn't be!! I guess the LBS
will be a bit of an approximation as well, but I'll 'feel' it's correct if
I pay for it!

The correct place for your head is placed precisely on the end of your neck.
Working out where it and the rest of your spine should be is the tricky bit.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:26:20 +0800, Brendo wrote:

Michael Warner wrote:
(SNIP)
If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.

The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem.

You don't necessarily need it - I can see my hub behind the bars,
but I have long arms and a good back, so I I'm comfortable stretched
out more than many people. I also have the bars about 4" below the
saddle.

Maybe it's because I've never been professionally fitted to a bike, but I
don't see how it could take account of the different tolerances people
have to being bent over while riding for long periods.


--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Michael Warner wrote:
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:26:20 +0800, Brendo wrote:


Michael Warner wrote:
(SNIP)

If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.

The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem.


You don't necessarily need it - I can see my hub behind the bars,
but I have long arms and a good back, so I I'm comfortable stretched
out more than many people. I also have the bars about 4" below the
saddle.

Maybe it's because I've never been professionally fitted to a bike, but I
don't see how it could take account of the different tolerances people
have to being bent over while riding for long periods.


I tend to agree a bit. The more youride, the more flexible
youget, the further forward you will be willing to lean.

Brendo

In article .com,
"Rayc" wrote:

I would suggest that if you are planning to ride for more than 1/2 hour
at a time or plan to ride along above 15km/hr, get the bike 'fitted'.

Are you kidding? My 6 yrs son often ride for more than 30mins... Shock
and horrors, he hasn't been fitted (whatever that means)!!!
--

In article .com,
"Donga" wrote:

Surely it is just an approximation, assuming everyone has the same
distance between their shoulder joint and their eyes? It would seem the
distances from seat to shoulder and shoulder to bar are far more
significant.

Some of these fitting are almost impossible unless you have a bundle of
cash and is able to try all the different frame and stem sizes under
real road conditions. I can't see how spending 10mins riding in each
position on a static trainer can definitively tell you the ultimate
answer.
--

Brendo wrote:
Michael Warner wrote:
(SNIP)
If you look at some online bike fit guides, you'll see that the standard
procedure is to set the saddle position, then go on the hoods and
check that the bars obscure your view of the front hub to get the
stem length right. Try that with the shifters in the standard position
(that others have described), then move them if you still feel too
stretched out. Remember that your elbows should be slightly bent.

The other variable here is bar height relative to your saddle. If you don't
have back trouble, try a couple of inches below it.

Just had a look on the bike re the 'obscured view of the front
hub' thing. If I look down I can see the hub about an inch inside
the bar. Maybe I should try a shorter stem. I will get fitted
tomorrow and see how things go. For $30 it can't get any worse,
and it might just be the start of something beautiful. (riding
the bike more, not hooking up with one of the LBS staff)

The obscured hub thing is another one of those hairy old myths that
perpetuate, like KOPS, the 'lemond method' and so on. It's basically
bull. What matters is how comfortable you are when on the hoods.
Everyone's different, and a bike fit can take a -long- time sometimes,
we usually expect in excess of 90 minutes on a spin trainer while we go
through it, and that's only to get a first approximation.

Have a read of this,

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

it's one of the better fit descriptions I've seen. I personally tend
to use a derivation of Keith Bontrager's methods with a bit of this one
thrown in and Steve Hogg's 5-10mm of axle setback. If a shop gets out
the 'fit kit', walk away. It's a sham.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:52 +0800, Brendo wrote:

I tend to agree a bit. The more youride, the more flexible
youget, the further forward you will be willing to lean.

OTOH, the more you ride, the older you get, and the more
upright your back may want you to be. But I hope to avoid
that effect for a few more years :-)

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

On 17 Oct 2006 06:05:17 -0700, Bleve wrote:

The obscured hub thing is another one of those hairy old myths that
perpetuate, like KOPS, the 'lemond method' and so on. It's basically
bull.

They're a safe, reasonably comfortable starting point for people who can't
or won't spend the time and money needed to be fitted by experts such as
yourself, though. The problem is when they're taken as gospel, and people
won't experiment to find out what improvements they can make.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Good stuff. It's interesting that frame size seems to be at the bottom
of his list of priorities.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Artoi wrote:
Are you kidding? My 6 yrs son often ride for more than 30mins... Shock
and horrors, he hasn't been fitted (whatever that means)!!!
--
Ok, fair comment, but I bet the six year old isnt planning 50+Km in a
single ride.

If the OP has an interest in riding to get fast enough to sit in a
bunch or something like Around the bay (vic reference) then it would
certainly pay to get some objective advice.

A lot of the fit guides are aimed at racers, who have some fitness and
time logged doing the klms.

for a beginner, it is quite different. feeling comfortable and being
able to ride for long distances, at speed, for a long time is very
difficult. Add to that trying to look like a bike racer or in a
bunch.....well you get the idea.

going to get fitted, adjusting seat height, position, stem height.
length, shoes etc makes a huge difference. Everyone is different and
will change as they get fitter

I'm not even talking about different seats, stems or hbars.

Michael Warner wrote:
On 17 Oct 2006 06:05:17 -0700, Bleve wrote:

The obscured hub thing is another one of those hairy old myths that
perpetuate, like KOPS, the 'lemond method' and so on. It's basically
bull.

They're a safe, reasonably comfortable starting point for people who can't
or won't spend the time and money needed to be fitted by experts such as
yourself, though. The problem is when they're taken as gospel, and people
won't experiment to find out what improvements they can make.

I wouldn't say it was 'safe', but yes, it works sorta for sorta average
people. I don't tend to see many average people though. Maybe that's
just because a lot of the people that see us for fits tend to need
remedial fixes, moreso than original setups. BTW, I wouldn't lay claim
to being an expert on fit, I have _much_ to learn and not everyone we
see I manage to get comfortable. I do know that a lot of fit lore out
there is ******** though, and that things like the 'fit kit' are bad
science.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Good stuff. It's interesting that frame size seems to be at the bottom
of his list of priorities.

Apart from glaringly incorrect sized bikes, I tend to agree with it not
being hugely important. There's such a range of headstem sizes and
angles available, and seatpost angles, that the frame itself isn't as
critical as it was in the days of quill stems, IMO anyway, and as long
as it's 'near enough', a suitable combination of bits can make it work.

Unfortunately, of late I've had to try and make some people fit bikes
that are *way* out of shape for them (not anyone that posts or reads
this newsgroup, btw, that one wasn't what I'm talking about, AFAIK I
have at least one very happy camper ) and have in some cases not
been able to get riders comfortable - generally women and bikes that
have top tubes that are miles too long or older men with poor hip and
back flexibility, that want to ride a roadbike with a racing 'look' but
that aren't capable or comfortable with much/any weight on their hands.
It's frustrating for me, I want to get them comfortable, and not much
fun for them, as they've bought some bike that's the wrong size for
them and we can't help much. We're doing quite a trade in very short,
very steep headsets of late .... and head tube extenders. Not pretty,
but often the easiest way to turn an aggressively setup bike into one
that's ridable.