Fixed/free hub opts to be free/free

Yesterday, a first. Sure, the chain had derailed in past but not to
such effect. On the road to work - on the same hill where my chain last
liberated itself! - my trusty fixie spontaneously converted to a
freewheeler.

There's always a moment of foreboding after losing the chain: did it
fall to the outside or inside of the cog? A series of grinding shudders
followed by a brief wheel lockup was the dreaded reply. How strange
though: the wheel suddenly started rolling freely after its sudden
seizure - my experience is that once a the chain wedges between the
spokes/hub flange and cog it stays that way. Regardless, it made for a
less harrowing stop amid the heavy traffic.

Being past nightfall it was difficult assessing the damage; but this
was clear: the cog had completely unscrewed despite there being a
lockring installed. I pocketed the lockring, screwed the cog back on
the hub, returned the chain to its rightful place and continued on.

Taking stock the following day led to the following conclusion: The
chain, having wedged itself between the hub flange and cog - and
extensively marring the spokes in the process, acted in concert with a
rotating wheel will all of the force of my high speed - did I mention I
was flying down a hill? - behind it, and did a destructive impression
of an ersatz chain whip. It unscrewed the cog, forcing the lockring
off.

Casualty report: the budget Suzue hub's lockring threads are stripped -
expectantly they lost the battle of strength against those of the
stainless Phil Wood lockring; the Surly cog has emerged relatively
unscathed; the wheel's drive side spokes are mortally wounded; and the
Suzy fix/free hub has now been converted to a free/free hub.

Luke

Suzy fix/free hub has now been converted to a free/free hub.

Or fixed/fixed if you don't backpedal much/you're a light rider/you have
high gearing. Kindofa glass-half-full perspective...

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Luke wrote:
Yesterday, a first. Sure, the chain had derailed in past but not to
such effect. On the road to work - on the same hill where my chain last
liberated itself! - my trusty fixie spontaneously converted to a
freewheeler.

There's always a moment of foreboding after losing the chain: did it
fall to the outside or inside of the cog? A series of grinding shudders
followed by a brief wheel lockup was the dreaded reply. How strange
though: the wheel suddenly started rolling freely after its sudden
seizure - my experience is that once a the chain wedges between the
spokes/hub flange and cog it stays that way. Regardless, it made for a
less harrowing stop amid the heavy traffic.

I don't know what the hills are like in your neck of the woods, but I'm
pretty sure my heart would stop if that happened. Just curious: what's
your chainline like?

Being past nightfall it was difficult assessing the damage; but this
was clear: the cog had completely unscrewed despite there being a
lockring installed. I pocketed the lockring, screwed the cog back on
the hub, returned the chain to its rightful place and continued on.

Again, curious: do you have brakes? did you simply rely on those to
stop from that point on? given my above comment, I feel I would have
walked the bike or called a taxi. How QR skewers? If you have those,
do you feel that they played a role?

[snip]

fixie talk: what kind of frame are you on? what's your gearing?

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the words to numbers
if you want to reply to me:.

"Luke" wrote:

Casualty report: the budget Suzue hub's lockring threads are
stripped - expectantly they lost the battle of strength against
those of the stainless Phil Wood lockring;

Correct me if I'm wrong: doesn't a Phil lockring have a Campag thread?

James Thomson

In article , Paul Hobson
wrote:

Luke wrote:
Yesterday, a first. Sure, the chain had derailed in past but not to
such effect. On the road to work - on the same hill where my chain last
liberated itself! - my trusty fixie spontaneously converted to a
freewheeler.

There's always a moment of foreboding after losing the chain: did it
fall to the outside or inside of the cog? A series of grinding shudders
followed by a brief wheel lockup was the dreaded reply. How strange
though: the wheel suddenly started rolling freely after its sudden
seizure - my experience is that once a the chain wedges between the
spokes/hub flange and cog it stays that way. Regardless, it made for a
less harrowing stop amid the heavy traffic.

I don't know what the hills are like in your neck of the woods, but I'm
pretty sure my heart would stop if that happened. Just curious: what's
your chainline like?

Chainline's bang on. The cause of derailment was a loose chain (
admittedly, I'd been neglecting maintenance) in conjunction with a
bumpy stretch of asphalt - I pay my taxes; can't we fix the f&^^%ing
potholes?! Estimated speed at the time: 45 km/h.

Being past nightfall it was difficult assessing the damage; but this
was clear: the cog had completely unscrewed despite there being a
lockring installed. I pocketed the lockring, screwed the cog back on
the hub, returned the chain to its rightful place and continued on.

Again, curious: do you have brakes? did you simply rely on those to
stop from that point on?

Yes, I've a single front brake - an old Shimano single pivot caliper;
that's what stopped me. There are intervals of weeks where I don't use
it at all, but on the occasions where I've no other recourse to
stopping - and this was one - it proves indispensable. Let me be
emphatic: those riding fixies on public thoroughfares sans brakes will
eventually - and painfully - learn that the law of averages always
asserts itself. Where it concerns the choices available for stopping a
bike is concerned, redundancy is desireable.


given my above comment, I feel I would have
walked the bike or called a taxi.

After the jolt of the wheel's grinding protests and momentary lockup,
and even as I was slowing, I was more concerned about the mayhem
visited upon the drivetrain: you know, that sinking feeling that some
manner of irreparable damage was inflicted.

How QR skewers? If you have those,
do you feel that they played a role?

The mode in which the wheel was fastened had absolutely no role in the
chain's liberation. During the length of the episode the wheel remained
where it should: securely fastened to the frame. Over the course of
years and across a half dozen fixed gear bikes, I've used QRs (always
steel!), track nuts, steel butterfly nuts - these were in use in this
instance, and Allen bolts (featured on Phil hubs) to secure the rear
wheel. The only problem incurred with these various methods was with
aluminum QRs; I don't recommend this approach.


fixie talk: what kind of frame are you on? what's your gearing?

No need to prompt here ;-). The frameset is a late 80s or early 90s 56
cm Reynolds 531 Medici. I've been told that Medici, built in
California, was the aborted offspring of the famed Masi clan's attempt
to expand its operations into the American market - Peter 'Qui si
parla...' do you know more? Gearing is a bit high at 48/17 with a 165mm
crankset.

I absolutely love the way the Medici handles.

Luke



















fixie talk: what kind of frame are you on? what's your gearing?

In article oWX%e.31332$nq.30858@lakeread05, Phil, Squid-in-Training
wrote:

Suzy fix/free hub has now been converted to a free/free hub.

Or fixed/fixed if you don't backpedal much/you're a light rider/you have
high gearing. Kindofa glass-half-full perspective...

Oh no Phil, let's not open that debate...

Luke

Luke wrote:
In article , Paul Hobson
wrote:


Luke wrote:


Again, curious: do you have brakes? did you simply rely on those to
stop from that point on?


Yes, I've a single front brake - an old Shimano single pivot caliper;
that's what stopped me. There are intervals of weeks where I don't use
it at all, but on the occasions where I've no other recourse to
stopping - and this was one - it proves indispensable. Let me be
emphatic: those riding fixies on public thoroughfares sans brakes will
eventually - and painfully - learn that the law of averages always
asserts itself. Where it concerns the choices available for stopping a
bike is concerned, redundancy is desireable.

I ride with a cheapo Tektro front brake. Similar to you, I'll go a long
time with out using it, but Atlanta has a lot of steep hills with red
light either halfway down or the very bottom or both. I'm simply not
strong enough yet to stand up and fight such a losing battle. I also
hate skidding my tire, it seems so...I don't know,
stupid(??)--destructive(???)


How QR skewers? If you have those,
do you feel that they played a role?


The mode in which the wheel was fastened had absolutely no role in the
chain's liberation. During the length of the episode the wheel remained
where it should: securely fastened to the frame. Over the course of
years and across a half dozen fixed gear bikes, I've used QRs (always
steel!), track nuts, steel butterfly nuts - these were in use in this
instance, and Allen bolts (featured on Phil hubs) to secure the rear
wheel. The only problem incurred with these various methods was with
aluminum QRs; I don't recommend this approach.

Thanks for the info. I've track bolts, but yeah, that's still good to
know. If I ever switch, I'll def. get steel QRs.

fixie talk: what kind of frame are you on? what's your gearing?


No need to prompt here ;-). The frameset is a late 80s or early 90s 56
cm Reynolds 531 Medici. I've been told that Medici, built in
California, was the aborted offspring of the famed Masi clan's attempt
to expand its operations into the American market - Peter 'Qui si
parla...' do you know more? Gearing is a bit high at 48/17 with a 165mm
crankset.

I absolutely love the way the Medici handles.


sweet! I want to beef up my gearing (from 42x16), but I doubt I'm ready
for it. It seems I always need to go to the hilliest parts of Atlanta
and as per my comments above, I'll use my brake going down so that I
don't have to walk to bike going up. You've obviously much more fixie
experience than I do, but I really feel like my legs are stronger and I
can get into my road bike's clips without coasting now. I love it!
Learning how to track stand makes me feel pretty bad ass too!

\\paul
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
..:change the words to numbers
if you want to reply to me:.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:04:51 -0400, Paul Hobson
wrote:

Luke wrote:
Yesterday, a first. Sure, the chain had derailed in past but not to
such effect. On the road to work - on the same hill where my chain last
liberated itself! - my trusty fixie spontaneously converted to a
freewheeler.

I don't know what the hills are like in your neck of the woods, but I'm
pretty sure my heart would stop if that happened. Just curious: what's
your chainline like?


I have a feeling chain tension is more important than chainline; even
a perfectly inline chainring and sprocket can lose the chain if it's a
bit loose. Strong argument for chain tugs, as I discovered yesterday
when I went out with none and had the chain off for the first time
since...I last went down a bumpy hill with no tugs.

Always seems to happen going down hill, when the top run is loose,
which suggests that it's easier to derail the chain from the chainring
than from the sprocket; not a surprising result.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Luke wrote:
Yesterday, a first. Sure, the chain had derailed in past but not to
such effect. On the road to work - on the same hill where my chain last
liberated itself! - my trusty fixie spontaneously converted to a
freewheeler.

snip long but interesting description of panic and destruction

Luke

Luke, visit this site for ideas on salvaging the fixedness of your hub:

http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

Locktite and an english-threaded bottom-bracket ring are your friends
IMHO. Caveat: I suppose this method may apply enough torque to your
lockring that it strips your Suzue hub again.

Good luck!

-C

In article ,
James Thomson wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong: doesn't a Phil lockring have a Campag thread?

James Thomson

Yes, it does. 1.32" x 24 TPI to be exact, as opposed to standard 1.29"
x 24 TPI for ISO threading employed by the Suzue. I've been using this
combination for years and thought little of the discrepancy in the
components' specifications. Indeed, I noticed nothing amiss whenever I
removed and re-installed the lockring while replacing cogs.

I'm doubtful that the non-spec lockring factored into the outcome of
the misadventu the thought of the Suzue's lockring threads holding
up against the thinner stock lockring doesn't seem likely.

Luke