Road tire life span

I ride Gatorskins in the winter, 700x25's around the same pressure, maybe
more like 115.
I get similar mileage from them, and I weigh in about 165lb.

My Conti GP 3000's only last about 1000mi in the summer months on my faster
bike.

I consider both of these reasonable, for the good ride and handling from the
Conti's.
I have had one (1) sidewall problem in using them for nearly 14 years now,
YMMV. I also consider that reasonable, I think Conti has gotten a bad rap
from a few of these cases being made public, I'd guess that other
manufacturers have had the same problem from time-to-time.

I've tried other longer-wearing tires a few times over the years, and I'm
not switching:-]

-pete

"cheg" wrote in message
news:aG6Ac.103502$3x.15777@attbi_s54...

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Depends on the tire characteristics, your riding style, road surface
material and climate, just like car tires. Grippier tires will wear
earlier
because of the softer compound. Hot climate will certainly wear tires
faster; if you do a lot of hard pedaling or fast club rides, chances are
you're putting more road friction on the tires, and for example, here in
S
Florida, many of the road surfaces we ride on have hard coral mixed into
the
asphalt, so it can be harder on tires too. You need to look at what
you're
doing to your tires.

BTW, 1400 miles is not bad wear for a set of tires, again depending on
the
conditions. If you had said 400 miles, I'd have really wondered. I
like
Hutchinson Carbon Comp tires. They wear very well, but still have good
fast
cornering characteristics (I use em in crits, but I'm only Cat 4, so
we're
not cornering at 30+) and pliable enough (even at 140PSI) that on long
rides, I don't start cursing them out.

Hope this helped....


This is in Seattle, certainly not a hot climate by your standards. We have
hills
instead :-)

The compound of the Ultra Gatorskins does seem softer than other tires
I've
used. I don't ride particularly fast, though. I average about 200 miles a
week,
mostly commuting in the 15-17 mph range.

Tom Chandler writes:

It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the nicest
handling tires I've used, but they go away so quickly and they're so
expensive that I'm looking for something else.

How do you whether one tire handles better than another since traction
is either there or not on pavement. There is no tire squeal or
side-slip although writers to this newsgroup sometimes describe their
cornering as drifting in curves. This does not occur. Besides that,
chip seal, the most abrasive, roads have poorer traction than concrete
or hot-mix asphalt roads.

http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/street...ealprogram.cfm

Jobst Brandt

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:31:38 GMT,
wrote:

Tom Chandler writes:

It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the nicest
handling tires I've used, but they go away so quickly and they're so
expensive that I'm looking for something else.

How do you whether one tire handles better than another since traction
is either there or not on pavement. There is no tire squeal or
side-slip although writers to this newsgroup sometimes describe their
cornering as drifting in curves. This does not occur. Besides that,
chip seal, the most abrasive, roads have poorer traction than concrete
or hot-mix asphalt roads.

http://www.ci.anchorage.ak.us/street...ealprogram.cfm

Jobst Brandt


Dear Jobst,

Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
pavement more often with poorer handling tires?

It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can tell
whether one tire handles better than another in terms of
traction?

Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question "How
do you [?] whether one tire handles better than another . .
.." seems rhetorical.

So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel writes:

It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the nicest
handling tires I've used, but they go away so quickly and they're
so expensive that I'm looking for something else.

How do you [know] whether one tire handles better than another
since traction is either there or not on pavement. There is no
tire squeal or side-slip, although writers to this newsgroup
sometimes describe their cornering as drifting in curves. This
does not occur. Besides that, chip seal, the most abrasive, roads
have poorer traction than concrete or hot-mix asphalt roads.

Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
pavement more often with poorer handling tires?

Maybe shmaybe, let the man speak for himself. You don't have to hold
his hand.

It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can tell whether
one tire handles better than another in terms of traction?

Unless it is a knobby tire (not a road tire of the kind in question)
there is no perceptible difference in handling until is washes out in
a curve, something that occurs with colored tires on wet roads. It is
not something you prefer to test but it has been done both in situ and
on the tire testing machine I once designed for Avocet to measure
maximum lean angle for tires.

Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question "How
do you [?] whether one tire handles better than another . .
." seems rhetorical.

That may be so in your estimation but I didn't ask you.

So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests on a 16ft
long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle until the bicycle
slid. This was done at low speed and with protective clothing. There
was a difference among tires tested. That was a few years ago.

Jobst Brandt

My rear Conti GP 3000 got 5000 miles on it before I bought a new one. I put
the new one on the front and the front one on the rear, so now the rear has
6000 on it. I weigh 160 and ride in the Texas Hill country in San Antonio.
I'm a fanatic about keeping an eye on my bike and it's various wears and
tears and only replaced the rear when it got that flattened out look. Upon
removal I checked the rubber remaining by just feeling it and while there
was a difference (obviously) from the new tire to the old one, the old one
had worn pretty regular.

Ross


"Pete Grey" wrote in message
...
I ride Gatorskins in the winter, 700x25's around the same pressure, maybe
more like 115.
I get similar mileage from them, and I weigh in about 165lb.

My Conti GP 3000's only last about 1000mi in the summer months on my
faster
bike.

I consider both of these reasonable, for the good ride and handling from
the
Conti's.
I have had one (1) sidewall problem in using them for nearly 14 years now,
YMMV. I also consider that reasonable, I think Conti has gotten a bad rap
from a few of these cases being made public, I'd guess that other
manufacturers have had the same problem from time-to-time.

I've tried other longer-wearing tires a few times over the years, and I'm
not switching:-]

-pete

"cheg" wrote in message
news:aG6Ac.103502$3x.15777@attbi_s54...

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Depends on the tire characteristics, your riding style, road surface
material and climate, just like car tires. Grippier tires will wear
earlier
because of the softer compound. Hot climate will certainly wear tires
faster; if you do a lot of hard pedaling or fast club rides, chances
are
you're putting more road friction on the tires, and for example, here
in
S
Florida, many of the road surfaces we ride on have hard coral mixed
into
the
asphalt, so it can be harder on tires too. You need to look at what
you're
doing to your tires.

BTW, 1400 miles is not bad wear for a set of tires, again depending on
the
conditions. If you had said 400 miles, I'd have really wondered. I
like
Hutchinson Carbon Comp tires. They wear very well, but still have
good
fast
cornering characteristics (I use em in crits, but I'm only Cat 4, so
we're
not cornering at 30+) and pliable enough (even at 140PSI) that on long
rides, I don't start cursing them out.

Hope this helped....


This is in Seattle, certainly not a hot climate by your standards. We
have
hills
instead :-)

The compound of the Ultra Gatorskins does seem softer than other tires
I've
used. I don't ride particularly fast, though. I average about 200 miles
a
week,
mostly commuting in the 15-17 mph range.

"Booker C. Bense"
. stanford.edu wrote in message
news:cav4s5

cheg wrote:


Why does higher pressure increase wear rate?

_ Less of the tire contacts the road.

As far as the ride, the smoothness
of the ride is the one notable thing about Gatorskins that makes me want to
continue using them so I don't find them harsh at all.

_ I think there is a typo in your message since I can't find any
evidence that gatorskins come in 32mm width. For a 23mm width
tire and your weight, 110 is probably about right...


27" x 1-1/4" = 32-630 ISO

According to Jobst
Brandt's measured data higher pressure = lower rolling resistance, which
could
be considered a positive benefit. I don't know how significant the gain is
compared to aerodynamic drag and other mechanical losses, though.

_ My own philosophy is to keep the tire pressure as low as is
safe and avoids pinch flats. For me road comfort in a 3 or 4 hour
ride is much more important than speed.

_ Booker C. Bense

One man's comfort is another man's PITA.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:58:22 GMT,
wrote:

Carl Fogel writes:

It's too bad as the Open Corsas have typically been the nicest
handling tires I've used, but they go away so quickly and they're
so expensive that I'm looking for something else.

How do you [know] whether one tire handles better than another
since traction is either there or not on pavement. There is no
tire squeal or side-slip, although writers to this newsgroup
sometimes describe their cornering as drifting in curves. This
does not occur. Besides that, chip seal, the most abrasive, roads
have poorer traction than concrete or hot-mix asphalt roads.

Maybe Tom notices that the traction is "not there" on the
pavement more often with poorer handling tires?

Maybe shmaybe, let the man speak for himself. You don't have to hold
his hand.

It seems unlikely, but are you saying that no rider can tell whether
one tire handles better than another in terms of traction?

Unless it is a knobby tire (not a road tire of the kind in question)
there is no perceptible difference in handling until is washes out in
a curve, something that occurs with colored tires on wet roads. It is
not something you prefer to test but it has been done both in situ and
on the tire testing machine I once designed for Avocet to measure
maximum lean angle for tires.

Since you offer no answer, your hastily typed question "How
do you [?] whether one tire handles better than another . .
." seems rhetorical.

That may be so in your estimation but I didn't ask you.

So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests on a 16ft
long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle until the bicycle
slid. This was done at low speed and with protective clothing. There
was a difference among tires tested. That was a few years ago.

Jobst Brandt


Dear Jobst,

If you don't like people replying to your posts, a newsgroup
may not be the best place to spend your time.

So your position is that no rider can tell the difference
between the way different tires handle during normal riding
and that they can be distinguished only at low speed on a
machine.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests on a 16ft
long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle until the bicycle
slid. This was done at low speed and with protective clothing. There
was a difference among tires tested. That was a few years ago.

Jobst Brandt


Dear Jobst,

If you don't like people replying to your posts, a newsgroup
may not be the best place to spend your time.

So your position is that no rider can tell the difference
between the way different tires handle during normal riding
and that they can be distinguished only at low speed on a
machine.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Perhaps you should both start by defining "handle" in this context. If it is
strictly lateral load bearing capacity while rolling, then direct measurement
would be the way to go. If it includes other characteristics, eg. vibration
transmssion, then the measurement is not sufficient by itself.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 00:33:21 GMT, "cheg"
wrote:


So how do you tell if one tire handles better than another?

You test it on a machine. I originally performed such tests on a 16ft
long paved plywood tiltbed increasing the angle until the bicycle
slid. This was done at low speed and with protective clothing. There
was a difference among tires tested. That was a few years ago.

Jobst Brandt


Dear Jobst,

If you don't like people replying to your posts, a newsgroup
may not be the best place to spend your time.

So your position is that no rider can tell the difference
between the way different tires handle during normal riding
and that they can be distinguished only at low speed on a
machine.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

Perhaps you should both start by defining "handle" in this context. If it is
strictly lateral load bearing capacity while rolling, then direct measurement
would be the way to go. If it includes other characteristics, eg. vibration
transmssion, then the measurement is not sufficient by itself.


Dear Cheg,

Yes, handling is probably many faceted.

A tire that stops well in a straight line on dry pavement,
for example, might not corner as well due to profile or
carcass design. Inflation alone varies so much in bicycle
tires that it may obscure all sorts of differences.

From what I see of Consumer Reports testing of car tires,
handling often varies between brands according to wet or dry
and between braking and cornering. They also do their best
to poll testers about less easily quantified characteristics
as "harshness," which I expect is what you have in mind with
vibration.

Unfortunately, tire handling for bicycles and motorcycles is
hard to test, since what would be a mere skid for a car is
likely to be a crash on two wheels and better riders may be
able to do more with the same equipment. That is,
practically anyone can crank a car on a skid pad up to a
certain speed and see whether it can stay on the curving
line, but riders on only two wheels need considerably more
confidence and skill to do the same thing at normal speeds
and higher.

I'm curious about bicycle tires and handling for two
reasons.

First, I know very little about it--my daily ride involves
neither high-speed cornering nor exciting stops.

Second, I have a vague suspicion that handling is relatively
unimportant in typical road competition. I sometimes wonder
whether bulldozer races place equal emphasis on cornering.

The Tour de France, for example, consists of rigid-frame
vehicles riding mostly in cooperative packs on pavement at
25-30 mph and sometimes up mountains alone at much lower
speeds. After three weeks, only a few minutes separate first
and second place. I doubt that anyone is going to whip Lance
Armstrong by mounting better-handling tires, but I'm willing
to learn otherwise.

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel writes:

If you don't like people replying to your posts, a newsgroup may not
be the best place to spend your time.

Your interpretation of discourse here is trying hard to
mis-characterize what is said.

So your position is that no rider can tell the difference between
the way different tires handle during normal riding and that they
can be distinguished only at low speed on a machine.

That is not what I said. You can test the wipe-out angle of tires at
speed but that is both painful and destructive to the bicyclist. An
alternative is to use a test bed and since speed is not a ruling
parameter, it can and has been be done at low speeds. I have done
that.

The point I tried to bring across is that road tires don't squeal or
slid on pavement until they have a sudden and unrecoverable breakout.
Therefore the question remains, how dose one arrive at the assessment
that a tire handles well.

I think that is a valid and simple question and it was not aimed at
you although if you have the answer I would like to hear it.

Jobst Brandt