Throw out your old bike

It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 8:49:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Well, I know that I'm ready to buy parts that aren't backwards compatible.

On 4/29/2021 11:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/

So much whining about backwards compatibility! Dudes, you're not going
backwards enough! I'm sure it will work with friction shifters! ;-)

And maybe I shouldn't derail the thread, but here's some real backward
compatibility:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-p...e-derailleurs/

Desmodromic in back, no cable in front. But you do have to move around a
bit to shift the front. If you read the article, you'll see that's a
feature, not a bug. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 12:05:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2021 11:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/
So much whining about backwards compatibility! Dudes, you're not going
backwards enough! I'm sure it will work with friction shifters! ;-)

And maybe I shouldn't derail the thread, but here's some real backward
compatibility:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-p...e-derailleurs/

Desmodromic in back, no cable in front. But you do have to move around a
bit to shift the front. If you read the article, you'll see that's a
feature, not a bug. ;-)
Why would you need a complex desmodromic mechanism when I defy anyone to think that he can't shift down rapidly enough with a spring since the CHAIN has to most slower than the derailleur.

On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 12:05:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2021 11:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/
So much whining about backwards compatibility! Dudes, you're not going
backwards enough! I'm sure it will work with friction shifters! ;-)

And maybe I shouldn't derail the thread, but here's some real backward
compatibility:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-p...e-derailleurs/

Desmodromic in back, no cable in front. But you do have to move around a
bit to shift the front. If you read the article, you'll see that's a
feature, not a bug. ;-)

With Jan, every bug is a feature. He could prove empirically that a two-speed flip flop hub was more efficient than a modern derailleur/cassette because the time off the bike flipping the wheel was a mandatory rest, and after remounting the bike, rider speeds were up to 28% faster for the remainder of the ride as compared to modern derailleur bikes, etc., etc. The effect is compounded with 60mm tires and a 1940s crank -- with 2020s pricing. It produced a bike with negative perceived rolling resistance.

It is far too Kool-Aid-esque for me.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/29/2021 4:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 12:05:15 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2021 11:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/
So much whining about backwards compatibility! Dudes, you're not going
backwards enough! I'm sure it will work with friction shifters! ;-)

And maybe I shouldn't derail the thread, but here's some real backward
compatibility:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-p...e-derailleurs/

Desmodromic in back, no cable in front. But you do have to move around a
bit to shift the front. If you read the article, you'll see that's a
feature, not a bug. ;-)

With Jan, every bug is a feature. He could prove empirically that a two-speed flip flop hub was more efficient than a modern derailleur/cassette because the time off the bike flipping the wheel was a mandatory rest, and after remounting the bike, rider speeds were up to 28% faster for the remainder of the ride as compared to modern derailleur bikes, etc., etc. The effect is compounded with 60mm tires and a 1940s crank -- with 2020s pricing. It produced a bike with negative perceived rolling resistance.

It is far too Kool-Aid-esque for me.

Oh, I agree regarding a lot of his writing. And there's no way I'd want
to even try that front derailleur. (I know that amazes you!)

But I'd be interested in test riding the desmodromic rear derailleur
just to see how it feels. After all, we're now deep into an era where
microscopic differences in "feel" are highly important. This shifting
mechanism may be another way of playing with that interest.

....

Related: I recall an article from many decades ago, about Honda spending
considerable money on what they called "feel engineering" for their
cars' controls. It wasn't enough for, say, a rocker switch to reliably
turn something on and off. They wanted a finely tuned tactile response,
something that would subconsciously infer "high quality" to the driver.
I guess it worked for them.

And that idea hasn't gone away. Our low-level Mazda has interior lights
that don't merely shut off; they dim down to zero over a roughly one
second period, sort of like a candle suddenly burning out. I don't know
why, but it's somehow pleasant enough that they took the trouble to
program it into the car's computer.

And I guess I paid for it!



--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/29/2021 6:25 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2021 4:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 29, 2021 at 12:05:15 PM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2021 11:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
It's not Link Glide compatible. Here's the new system

https://bikerumor.com/2021/04/27/all...ds-compatible/

So much whining about backwards compatibility! Dudes,
you're not going
backwards enough! I'm sure it will work with friction
shifters! ;-)

And maybe I shouldn't derail the thread, but here's some
real backward
compatibility:
https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-p...e-derailleurs/

Desmodromic in back, no cable in front. But you do have
to move around a
bit to shift the front. If you read the article, you'll
see that's a
feature, not a bug. ;-)

With Jan, every bug is a feature. He could prove
empirically that a two-speed flip flop hub was more
efficient than a modern derailleur/cassette because the
time off the bike flipping the wheel was a mandatory
rest, and after remounting the bike, rider speeds were up
to 28% faster for the remainder of the ride as compared to
modern derailleur bikes, etc., etc. The effect is
compounded with 60mm tires and a 1940s crank -- with 2020s
pricing. It produced a bike with negative perceived
rolling resistance.

It is far too Kool-Aid-esque for me.

Oh, I agree regarding a lot of his writing. And there's no
way I'd want to even try that front derailleur. (I know that
amazes you!)

But I'd be interested in test riding the desmodromic rear
derailleur just to see how it feels. After all, we're now
deep into an era where microscopic differences in "feel" are
highly important. This shifting mechanism may be another way
of playing with that interest.

...

Related: I recall an article from many decades ago, about
Honda spending considerable money on what they called "feel
engineering" for their cars' controls. It wasn't enough for,
say, a rocker switch to reliably turn something on and off.
They wanted a finely tuned tactile response, something that
would subconsciously infer "high quality" to the driver. I
guess it worked for them.

And that idea hasn't gone away. Our low-level Mazda has
interior lights that don't merely shut off; they dim down to
zero over a roughly one second period, sort of like a candle
suddenly burning out. I don't know why, but it's somehow
pleasant enough that they took the trouble to program it
into the car's computer.

And I guess I paid for it!




Lever action fronts are really nice. Very positive, easy to
use. Any cable actuated front is sloppy by comparison. I
think its demise may have been driven by aesthetics- to
match the rear control lever & wire. Certainly not
performance driven- levers rock!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Op vrijdag 30 april 2021 om 01:26:03 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:


...

Related: I recall an article from many decades ago, about Honda spending
considerable money on what they called "feel engineering" for their
cars' controls. It wasn't enough for, say, a rocker switch to reliably
turn something on and off. They wanted a finely tuned tactile response,
something that would subconsciously infer "high quality" to the driver.
I guess it worked for them.

Ever used a calculator with ****ty wobbly buttons or a panel with buttons without any tactile feedback, your Iphone that makes a sound when you push a button on the displayed keyboard? Those things are important I think. I don't like touchscreens for this reason, beside the greasy fingerprints. You see a lot of typos when people use Ipad. For my last car a requirement was that it could be operated without a touchscreen.

And that idea hasn't gone away. Our low-level Mazda has interior lights
that don't merely shut off; they dim down to zero over a roughly one
second period, sort of like a candle suddenly burning out. I don't know
why, but it's somehow pleasant enough that they took the trouble to
program it into the car's computer.

Program? They just added a capacitor. Sometimes that is nice (your light) or a nuisance (turn off, wait 20 seconds, turn on again to reset a device (modem, router or whatever). In my car they added a (adjustable) timer so the interior lights stay on for 20 seconds or so and then dim slowly.


And I guess I paid for it!

Of course, they want to make a profit.


Lou