Crap respsonse from Connex about bikes on trains.

"DJ" wrote:

Well no it's not ok but understandable to make restrictions at certain
peak times due to possible risk to other commuters.

Restrictions start to look like persecution when there are only ever a tiny
number of people who would take a bike on a peak hour train.

Say you weren't a bike rider, and your travelling in a fairly packed
carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud
splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up
against your suit or workclothes,

And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a
carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?

or worse still, you get scraped along the leg with a sharp end of a pedal
or chainwheel or it rips your suit leg to peices, just because the bike
was in the carriage,

Some people just lack gross motor skills, I know.

no fault to anyone but all it takes is a jerk from a sudden stop to send
standing passengers scurrying to get balance.

One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails, so
that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We had
plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.

It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
tight confines of that type of vehicle.

Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra
buses

Prams are another pain in the arse,but unlike bicycles, don't have the
sharp peices to rip you open

!!!!

and that's the only reason they restrict bikes at these times plus the
fact that for every bike on the train, they can fit 2 more people.

No, the rail authorities seem to have an innate antipathy to bikes. V-line
is banning bikes on peak country services, despite the fact that NO
additional passenger space will be available as a result (all bikes go into
designated bike luggage areas)

Maybe things are differnet in NSW. You need to get a perspective on
Victoria, where one of the best PT systems in Australia for bike/rail
multimode travel, is being made much less usable... and all by a Labor
government who lay claims to wanting greater sustainability!!!

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

"Boostland" wrote in message
g.com...

"Vintage" wrote in message
...
Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address
any
of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak
hour.

Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the
roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home
with
her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they
want
to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case
scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her
skills
on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.

I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?

Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.

"Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.

During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex train
services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of
steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to
enable more passengers to be carried.

The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new
suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing patronage
has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required
to
maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour
services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most
congested
parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be
carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.

The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes
travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains,
the
ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to be
able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction
without
restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train
networks, including Brisbane and Perth.

The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly
support
the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the
need
to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are
encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport
by
leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes
on
trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a
station
all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)

Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental
fees for
lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now
required.
Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated.
CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage
trains
are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more
room
for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.

The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in
relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of Infrastructure
is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage
storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100
bikes
NOT stolen) , more bike
cages are likely to be implemented.

Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.

Yours sincerely


Adrian Webb
Victorian Fare Policy Manager




What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these
banned as well ?

If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the
folding options.


I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and it's
pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come
across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both
times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came back with
the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as luggage (we
didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an unfolded bike).
However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my buying an extra ticket
for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much on the grounds of "a
bike's a bike".

Cheers,
Liz

"Liz" wrote in message
...
"Boostland" wrote in message
g.com...

"Vintage" wrote in message
...
Well great to see the cut and past job from Connex that didn't address
any
of the concerns I raised with them over the bike ban on trains in peak
hour.

Lets me just say that if its dark in the arvo, the rain hits hard, the
roads are REAL nasty I'm telling the wife to get the train still home
with
her bike instead of riding home that night. We will cop any fine they
want
to throw at us or action taking as its still better than the worst case
scenario of her on the roads in those conditions. And I trust her
skills
on the road, its just all the other nuts I don't trust and see daily.

I take it when the new trains are here we are allowed back on?

Here is the response about the bike scapegoat issue we are facing.

"Thank you for your feedback to Metlink regarding bikes on trains.

During the last two years, patronage has increased by 23% on Connex
train
services. Patronage is expected to continue to increase and a number of
steps are being taken to increase the capacity of the train network to
enable more passengers to be carried.

The Victorian government has recently announced an order for 18 new
suburban trains and 22 new V/Locity carriages. However, growing
patronage
has meant that a number of difficult operational decisions were required
to
maximise the number of passengers that can be carried on peak hour
services. It is expected that the removal of bikes from the most
congested
parts of the network during peak hours will enable more passengers to be
carried, providing significant environmental and community benefits.

The restrictions for bikes are highly targeted and only apply to bikes
travelling in the peak direction during peak times. For Connex trains,
the
ban only applies to services within Zone 1. Customers will continue to
be
able to travel at off-peak times and in the counter peak direction
without
restrictions. Similar rules exist in other Australian suburban train
networks, including Brisbane and Perth.

The Victorian Government and the public transport industry strongly
support
the use of public transport in conjunction with cycling and regret the
need
to restrict bikes from peak hour trains. Public transport users are
encouraged to continue to use bikes in conjunction with public transport
by
leaving their bikes at the station at peak times and taking their bikes
on
trains during off-peak times. (who wants to leave a good bike at a
station
all day, day in day out at the same time each day in most areas?)

Lockers are provided at many Connex and V/Line stations.(Rubbish) Rental
fees for
lockers have been eliminated, with only a refundable deposit now
required.
Fees for the carriage of bikes on public transport have been eliminated.
CCTV coverage at stations reduces the chances of theft. Six carriage
trains
are now operated on the majority of off-peak services, providing more
room
for bikes during the day, at night and on weekends.

The Victorian Government recognises that there is more work to do in
relation to bicycle storage at stations. The Department of
Infrastructure
is working with Connex and Bicycle Victoria to implement a bike cage
storage facility at a suburban station as a trial. If successful(100
bikes
NOT stolen) , more bike
cages are likely to be implemented.

Thank you for raising this matter with the Public Transport Division.

Yours sincerely


Adrian Webb
Victorian Fare Policy Manager




What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these
banned as well ?

If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the
folding options.


I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and
it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to
come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and
both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came
back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as
luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an
unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my
buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much
on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".

Cheers,
Liz


Easy to fix put bike in bag or suitcase then it is luggage


Brompton Travel Case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJJ7zakGLbw


Bike Friday Travel Case that is also a trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYOhcJtxmpg


Bike Friday soft bag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eUmBfSgU5w

I wonder what they would say to a normal sized bike with wheels removed
inside a large soft bag, might be a way to get around the no bike rule :P
Would have to read the rules about luggage size to confirm.

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:51:23 GMT
PeteSig wrote:

"DJ" wrote:

carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud
splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up
against your suit or workclothes,

And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a
carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?

Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.

Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before
they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X
people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the
next station?

or worse still, you get scraped along the leg with a sharp end of a pedal
or chainwheel or it rips your suit leg to peices, just because the bike
was in the carriage,

Some people just lack gross motor skills, I know.

Some do, yes. Elderly people, those with some varieties of MS, those
with injuries, those with some balance problems, some people with
Downs Syndrome, some people who are tired.

I am unsure why they don't count.

One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails, so
that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We had
plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.

OPen spaces are usually about lack of people. What's the population
of the city and the numbers using trains now compared to them?


It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
tight confines of that type of vehicle.

Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra
buses

How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove?
Should other passengers have to wait?

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:39:34 GMT
Liz wrote:
I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and it's
pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come
across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both

to quote:

Bicycles - standard, folding and disassembled - travel free in
non-peak periods. You will need to purchase a child ticket as well as
your own if you wish to travel with a bicycle between the hours of
6.00am and 9.00am and 3.30pm and 7.30pm on weekdays.

to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one,
even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a
bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is
also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.

I suspect that most staff would not care about a folder in a bag, but
might care about one out of a bag.

I have been asked to show a 2nd ticket for the 'bent towards the end
of evening peak, but being a disgustingly law abiding type I had
bought one.

Zebee

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message
...
In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:39:34 GMT
Liz wrote:
I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and
it's
pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come
across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both

to quote:

Bicycles - standard, folding and disassembled - travel free in
non-peak periods. You will need to purchase a child ticket as well as
your own if you wish to travel with a bicycle between the hours of
6.00am and 9.00am and 3.30pm and 7.30pm on weekdays.

to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one,
even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a
bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is
also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.

I suspect that most staff would not care about a folder in a bag, but
might care about one out of a bag.

I have been asked to show a 2nd ticket for the 'bent towards the end
of evening peak, but being a disgustingly law abiding type I had
bought one.

Zebee

I remember one weekend i took my bicycle on the train from Mac Flds to the
city(Syd) and got chatting to 2 of those city rail ticket checkers on the
train going in and i was telling them about BUGs and what they do and some
of the rides we go etc etc and kept them chatting untill we got to
Kingsgrove where they got off to go back on another train...they didn't even
ask if i had a ticket for myself let alone the bike...mmm good diversion i
thought....

But yeah, in the peak time in Sydney you just buy a child ticket for the
bike then no probs usually except you might get a few growls from passengers
in a packed carriage....i had one guy say to me one night "why don't you
ride the f'ing thing home"? and I said "why don't you walk home? he shut up
then....it helps when you don't reply with obsenities back as it makes you
look better than those who do...sometimes!! lol

I must say though, i wouldn't mind betting that some day soon if the petrol
prices go higher and higher and more people opt for the train that cityrail
could bring in the 'no bikes in peaktime' policy..wouldn't put it past them.

DJ

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
tight confines of that type of vehicle.
Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra
buses

How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove?
Should other passengers have to wait?

Zebee

I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient
'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.

ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be early.

That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down
in Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city
areas either.


G-S

Liz wrote:

.... snip

What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these
banned as well ?

If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the
folding options.


I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and
it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to
come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and
both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came
back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as
luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an
unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my
buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much
on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".

I rarely use public transport these days; however if I ever find myself
in the position of wanting to take my folding bike on a train in Sydney
peak hour, I fully intend to *not* purchase a ticket, and if the transit
police issue a fine, I fully intend to contest it through the courts. I
think
there is an arguable case that a folding bike (in a bag) is not a bike.

Getting back to the original topic, I've spent the last 3 months living
and working in Melbourne, commuting 30km both ways each day
with one exception when I used the train. The trip home that day was
enough to convince me that almost anything would be preferable to
a peak hour train trip in Melbourne, with or without a bike.
That 'almost anything' arrived just before Christmas, when a severe
afternoon thunderstorm sent me to Parliament station with my bike
for the trip home. I would have happily paid a quadruple fare; luckily
the train had enough space for both of us, and the bike was free.

I can see both side of the issue too - I think any lobbying should
encompass a willingness to pay a surcharge of some kind for the bike.

--
beerwolf

"G-S" wrote in message
...
Zebee Johnstone wrote:

It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
tight confines of that type of vehicle.
Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and
Canberra buses

How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove?
Should other passengers have to wait?

Zebee

I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient
'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.

ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be
early.

That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down in
Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city
areas either.


G-S


That may well be in the slack periods early in the morning (first services)
and late in the evening (after 7.30pm or 8pm) and on some holiday periods
like it is right now but generally in my experience having been a Sydney
Buses driver for 18 years (not at the moment though) in those above
mentioned times, they tend to tighten up the timetable so they can get more
trips in per operating bus for eg. instead of doing 2 round trips in/out of
city per half shift, they'll be timetabling for 3 round trips.

I was up in Brisbane for 9 months recently and in that whole time i think i
seen 2 bikes on those front racks so i don't know if they have been a paying
proposition.
I think people have to realise that with buses, they try to cater for most
of the travelling public but it's bloody hard trying to cater for all
purposes.
I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7
years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.

DJ

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:13:29 +1100
DJ wrote:
I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7
years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.

I've seen elderly passengers being quite thankful for those. Ditto
people with prams.

Long ago when I was young, Perth buses used to carry prams on racks on
the back of the bus. They stopped it, I believe because of the hassle
the drivers had doing the loading and unloading as not all pram owners
could manage it.

When I was working in North Sydney I used to take the train home if I
was late home of an evening and couldn't be arsed facing the hills.

No point trying to get the bike on in peak hour though!

I expect the 'bent wouldn't fit on a bus bicycle rack anyway.

Zebee