Campagnolo 11 speed prices

On Oct 30, 12:27*pm, wrote:
Clive George wrote:
Things are not improving as fast in bicycle technology as one is
lead to believe. *As I mentioned in another thread, freewheel
ratchets, although improved are run practically dry (noisy) as a
defense against failures that are more caused by absurd gearing
than sticky lubrication.
Oy - those low gears aren't absurd. Not everybody has legs like
you. Cycling should be, and is, accessible to people who aren't as
strong, for whatever reason.

...and who have enough money to pull the industry off into absurd
designs. *The pursuit of equipping many nonathletic people with
bicycles that they can parade around on is not good for improvements
of the equipment. *Interviewing drivers of FWD SUV's and all sorts of
people in pseudo pickup trucks brings out a "logical" sounding
explanation why they need such a vehicle. *The same goes for the high
end bicycle owners.

Gotta have it!

Jobst Brandt

Yup. Lance selected a 22:34 low gear at Leadville because he's
nonathletic and wants to parade around.

-pm

What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

It's not nearly that large a difference on a complete big though. How
about on the 'Campy side? You'd have a better clue than I as to whether
complete bikes reflect the entire differential or not.

I'm thinking, perhaps incorrectly, that Shimano (and Campy) are going to
discover that there are dangers pricing the the highest-end components
beyond what much of the targeted market can pay. Either that or they're
going to have to redefine customer expectations and explain that certain
groups truly are race-only offerings, not meant for people who have to
pay for their own equipment. Which, of course, might make them all the
more desirable...

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

h
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
On Oct 29, 2:21 pm, wrote:
skrev:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...
A grand for a crank? Maybe, maybe rational.

"Only" 489 euro
hehttp://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+Ult...

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...
$625 for shifters? Getting irrational.

289
Euro:http://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+11+...

I looks like performancebike is charging a hefty overprice. Usually
there isn't such a big discrepancy between prices in the US and EU
regarding high end Campagnolo stuff.

Not that I find SR inexpensive even at EU prices. I think SR is a
service Campagnolo provides to wealthy people that really don't now
what else to do with the heaps of cash that accumulates on their bank
account.

--
Regards

What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

On Oct 30, 4:07*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

It's not nearly that large a difference on a complete big though. How
about on the 'Campy side? You'd have a better clue than I as to whether
complete bikes reflect the entire differential or not.

I'm thinking, perhaps incorrectly, that Shimano (and Campy) are going to
discover that there are dangers pricing the the highest-end components
beyond what much of the targeted market can pay.





Either that or they're
going to have to redefine customer expectations and explain that certain
groups truly are race-only offerings, not meant for people who have to
pay for their own equipment. Which, of course, might make them all the
more desirable...

You bring up a good point about setting the highest group so high up
the price ladder. When I bought my first Campagnolo components I
bought a complete Chorus grouppo. It was sort of high priced but
easily justified. Lower than Record by a few hundred to not warrant
Record. With Chorus I could feel I had close enough to the very best
to be very happy. With Super at close to $3500, Record at $3000, and
Chorus at $2500 roughly, I'm priced into Centaur at best. I currently
have a Centaur grouppo and various Record and Chorus and even Veloce
parts on bikes. All work wonderfully. But the Centaur does not give
me that same feeling I get with the Record and Chorus pieces. Even if
new ergo shaped Centaur 10 speed is better than all my Record and
Chorus pieces now, I doubt I would ever feel as good about using it as
my current Record and Chorus due to the years of branding Centaur into
the third best Campagnolo group.





--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

h
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in ...
On Oct 29, 2:21 pm, wrote:





skrev:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...
A grand for a crank? Maybe, maybe rational.

"Only" 489 euro
hehttp://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+Ult...

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...
$625 for shifters? Getting irrational.

289
Euro:http://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+11+...

I looks like performancebike is charging a hefty overprice. Usually
there isn't such a big discrepancy between prices in the US and EU
regarding high end Campagnolo stuff.

Not that I find SR inexpensive even at EU prices. I think SR is a
service Campagnolo provides to wealthy people that really don't now
what else to do with the heaps of cash that accumulates on their bank
account.

--
Regards

What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 30, 1:18*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

On Oct 29, 5:05 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car is
4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric clinic too?
It is gonna be crowded in there.
I was at my LBS last saturday and I asked if he already sold 11 speed
Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you took one shifter
apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary', they changed
almost everything.
I think I stick to my 10 speed stuff for a while ;-)

Lou

'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers..ALL levers the same...

He found the grooved plate and the tiny bearing balls preloaded with a
spring washer 'scary'. Why change a reliable (10 speed) mechanism with a
new 'invented wheel' he asked himself.
How do you know if it is more robust Peter?

Lou

Great point is that ERGO of last design was rebuildable but shift
springs and metal spring carriers broke all the time(either the post
broke or it split). Nice to make money rebuilding these but it's nice
to see the same function while replacing the 2 parts that busted all
the time.

Bonjour,

Qui si parla Campagnolo a écrit :

Great point is that ERGO of last design was rebuildable but shift
springs and metal spring carriers broke all the time(either the post
broke or it split). Nice to make money rebuilding these but it's nice
to see the same function while replacing the 2 parts that busted all
the time.

The new Ergo 2009 is rebuildable also !
To pass from 11 to 10s, it is necessary to change
EC-SR062 and EC-SR013

I think that the opposite is true also ?

But, and springs ?

--
Cordialement
Jean Pasquet
[On respecte un homme qui se respecte lui-même] Honoré de Balzac
(pour réponse, remettre les 3 voyelles de mon nom)

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Oct 30, 1:18 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

On Oct 29, 5:05 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car is
4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric clinic too?
It is gonna be crowded in there.
I was at my LBS last saturday and I asked if he already sold 11 speed
Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you took one shifter
apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary', they changed
almost everything.
I think I stick to my 10 speed stuff for a while ;-)
Lou
'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers..ALL levers the same...
He found the grooved plate and the tiny bearing balls preloaded with a
spring washer 'scary'. Why change a reliable (10 speed) mechanism with a
new 'invented wheel' he asked himself.
How do you know if it is more robust Peter?

Lou

Great point is that ERGO of last design was rebuildable but shift
springs and metal spring carriers broke all the time(either the post
broke or it split). Nice to make money rebuilding these but it's nice
to see the same function while replacing the 2 parts that busted all
the time.


Why not improve the parts that broke instead of doing a major redesign?
Like making them of titanium ;-)

Lou

On Oct 31, 10:41*am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:



On Oct 30, 1:18 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

On Oct 29, 5:05 pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
The average devaluation in the first year of a new medium size car is
4000 euro. Lots of those. Put those people in a psychiatric clinic too?
It is gonna be crowded in there.
I was at my LBS last saturday and I asked if he already sold 11 speed
Record gruppo's. 'Yes several', he answered. Did you took one shifter
apart was my second question? Yes he said. And? 'Scary', they changed
almost everything.
I think I stick to my 10 speed stuff for a while ;-)
Lou
'Scary'? Why? VERY simple, much more robust, still with part
numbers..ALL levers the same...
He found the grooved plate and the tiny bearing balls preloaded with a
spring washer 'scary'. Why change a reliable (10 speed) mechanism with a
new 'invented wheel' he asked himself.
How do you know if it is more robust Peter?

Lou

Great point is that ERGO of last design was rebuildable but shift
springs and metal spring carriers broke all the time(either the post
broke or it split). Nice to make money rebuilding these but it's nice
to see the same function while replacing the 2 parts that busted all
the time.

Why not improve the parts that broke instead of doing a major redesign?
Like making them of titanium ;-)

Lou

Not that we are the materials expert or that Campagnolo would listen
to a lowly bike shop wrench but we suggested this as far back as 1998
when we saw our first post break on the EC-RE-111. It's made of some
sort of cheap metal and could have easily been made more robust w/o
much expense.

On Oct 29, 2:03*pm, "
wrote:
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733....
A grand for a crank? *Maybe, maybe rational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733....
$625 for shifters? *Getting irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...64&item=50-733....
$500 for a rear derailleur? *Irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...56&item=50-732....
$480 for a cassette? *Well beyond irrational.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...65&item=50-733....
$230 for a FRONT derailleur? *Inexplicable.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...62&item=50-733....
$90 for a chain? *Only $10 more than the 10 speed chain.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...59&item=50-732....
$50 for just the outboard bearing cups?

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...58&item=50-732....
$450 for brakes?

$3425 for the above parts. *Wow.

For someone who wears a 12,000 watch, drives a 80,000 car and owns a
4,000.000 house, spending 10,000 on a bike is something barely
noticeable. I have a friend that owns a bike shop specializing in high
end stuff for the wealthy local cyclists. Those people don't care
about what they ride. If he tells them that there is something new and
worth considering they usually make the investment. One guy needed to
have a chainring replaced in his Merlin Campy Record several years
ago. He told my friend to recommend a new bike instead. So, he got a
C40 for about $5,000 without blinking. There are not really that many
people like that in El Paso so my friend sells only a few bikes like
that a year. the rest is maintenance, tires and tubes, clothing , etc.
So he is not really making a killing nor he is a rich dude. But, when
we go riding, there are a few people riding exorbitant bikes. He is
putting together a Look-Campy record 11 for a restaurant chain owner
right now. The campy 11 looks very nice.

I guess that these are the people that Obama wants to tax. I was
thinking about the argument about small business owners making
$200,000 or above. To have a business that pays one person above
200,000 grand, the business has to be making a killing. The business
owner will deduce pretty much every expense as a business expense. So,
if he still can afford to pay himself $200,000 grand he is living way
above the $200,000 grand.

I still ride with my chinese ti and veloce components for less than
$1000, and about 20 pounds. It was customed made for me with a 75.5
degree angled seat tube so that my back wouldn't hurt during long
rides. I can ride 100 miles on aerobars on that bike w/o getting off
and my back won't even notice. I hurt my back lifting a heavy garbage
can a few weeks ago. It hurt to walk. I rode 50 miles non-stop and my
back didn't flinch. When I got off though, I couldn't' straighten up
for a while :-(

I also acquired a Javelin tri bike for less than $600 shipped when
Javelin went crazy and gave away all their bikes to specialize in
custom frame making a few months ago. That bike is great. I'm going
for a 50 mile cruise on my Jav in about an hour :-)

On Oct 30, 2:07*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

It's not nearly that large a difference on a complete big though. How
about on the 'Campy side? You'd have a better clue than I as to whether
complete bikes reflect the entire differential or not.

Don't buy complete bikes so I don't know. OEM is always cheaper and
I've always suspected, shimano and sram make deals that equal below
cost 'stuff' on some bikes, and try to make it up other places. I look
at 7900, with the only real change of hidden der housing and a few
bits of carbon and the price goes way up. Add a $1300 carbon crank and
it's the price of SuperRecord w/o the ceramics and titanium(NOT saying
that is anything but marketing, BTW).

I'm thinking, perhaps incorrectly, that Shimano (and Campy) are going to
discover that there are dangers pricing the the highest-end components
beyond what much of the targeted market can pay. Either that or they're
going to have to redefine customer expectations and explain that certain
groups truly are race-only offerings, not meant for people who have to
pay for their own equipment. Which, of course, might make them all the
more desirable...

Campagnolo has stated and again, restated they are a 'premium'
component maker. They are the Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, not the Toyota
or even Honda of bike stuff. GOOD for them. Just like the 'baby Benz'
and 'People's Porsche' was a poor idea, Campagnolo on $900 bikes is
too. I think we are going to sell lots of SR and Chorus and Veloce.
And 7900, and 6600 SL and not much sram.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

h
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in ...
On Oct 29, 2:21 pm, wrote:



skrev:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...61&item=50-733...
A grand for a crank? Maybe, maybe rational.

"Only" 489 euro
hehttp://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+Ult...

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...63&item=50-733...
$625 for shifters? Getting irrational.

289
Euro:http://bike-components.de/catalog/An...per+Record+11+...

I looks like performancebike is charging a hefty overprice. Usually
there isn't such a big discrepancy between prices in the US and EU
regarding high end Campagnolo stuff.

Not that I find SR inexpensive even at EU prices. I think SR is a
service Campagnolo provides to wealthy people that really don't now
what else to do with the heaps of cash that accumulates on their bank
account.

--
Regards

What I wonder is what makes 7900 nearly twice the price of 7800, with
the aluminum crank? $1400 vs $2600.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

or even Honda of bike stuff. GOOD for them. Just like the 'baby Benz'
and 'People's Porsche' was a poor idea, Campagnolo on $900 bikes is
too. I think we are going to sell lots of SR and Chorus and Veloce.

I like my Campagnolo stuff on my "cheap" ($800-$1000) bikes
(Bianchi). It makes my life simpler by having the same way
to shift on all of my bikes. Unfortunately it's fairly
hard to buy those Campagnolo equipped bikes around here,
only 1 of 7 dealers has them.