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Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 21st 21, 04:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
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Posts: 826
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 16:30:20 UTC+2 schreef :
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:30:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 02:11:05 UTC+2 schreef :
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?

Its a Torx 25 bolt. Dumb? Torx is a superior interface compared to a hex interface. You better get used to it and buy a set of Torx wrenches. An engineer here at work who uses a allen bolt instead of a Torx in one of their designs get ‘fired’.

Lou, I should add that at the spot in the hoods where the Torx wrench is inserted the hoods on the ones I've seen have been cut by the edges of those. That is bad engineering in anyone's book.


Huh?? Been there done that:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TypuKvYARvRvvmSg8

Lou
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  #12  
Old May 21st 21, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On Fri, 21 May 2021 07:28:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Torx wrenches are common and I have a complete set of them. But long handled Torx wrenches are NOT common and they are about $9 a copy.


You have expensive tastes. Try something cheaper. For example:

Torx Offset T-Handle Hex Key Set, 6 Pc. $13 plus tax and shipping.
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-offset-star-drive-wrench-set-42926.html

Protorq TORX Tamper Resistant Bits, Security TORX Bits (T7-T40),
Security Star Bits, 150mm, 10 -Pieces, High Grade S2 Steel
$17
https://www.amazon.com/Protorq-Tamper-Resistant-Security-Pieces/dp/B07TQDTFVD/

Incidentally, the handle isn't very long, but the shank or shaft can
be quite long.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about damaging the rubber cover if you
remove the cover rather than punching a hole in it with the Torx
driver.

However, a real problem is using an electric screwdriver or cordless
driver. These work just fine for removing Torx screws, but will strip
the fastener threads if you try to use it to insert the Torx screw,
especially into aluminum castings. Adjustable torque limiters can
help, but I don't trust them and prefer to insert screws with hand
tools.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #13  
Old May 21st 21, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On 5/21/2021 10:13 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 16:30:20 UTC+2 schreef :
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:30:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 02:11:05 UTC+2 schreef :
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?
Its a Torx 25 bolt. Dumb? Torx is a superior interface compared to a hex interface. You better get used to it and buy a set of Torx wrenches. An engineer here at work who uses a allen bolt instead of a Torx in one of their designs get ‘fired’.

Lou, I should add that at the spot in the hoods where the Torx wrench is inserted the hoods on the ones I've seen have been cut by the edges of those. That is bad engineering in anyone's book.


Huh?? Been there done that:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TypuKvYARvRvvmSg8

Lou


We use the Snap On T-handle Torx which slips easily under
the cover. No damage to new levers during build.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #14  
Old May 21st 21, 04:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:22:04 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 07:28:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Torx wrenches are common and I have a complete set of them. But long handled Torx wrenches are NOT common and they are about $9 a copy.

You have expensive tastes. Try something cheaper. For example:

Torx Offset T-Handle Hex Key Set, 6 Pc. $13 plus tax and shipping.
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-offset-star-drive-wrench-set-42926..html

Protorq TORX Tamper Resistant Bits, Security TORX Bits (T7-T40),
Security Star Bits, 150mm, 10 -Pieces, High Grade S2 Steel
$17
https://www.amazon.com/Protorq-Tamper-Resistant-Security-Pieces/dp/B07TQDTFVD/

Incidentally, the handle isn't very long, but the shank or shaft can
be quite long.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about damaging the rubber cover if you
remove the cover rather than punching a hole in it with the Torx
driver.

However, a real problem is using an electric screwdriver or cordless
driver. These work just fine for removing Torx screws, but will strip
the fastener threads if you try to use it to insert the Torx screw,
especially into aluminum castings. Adjustable torque limiters can
help, but I don't trust them and prefer to insert screws with hand
tools.


You do have to be careful using a cordless driver to install screws, but my driver has five or six torque settings, and the lowest is very low, so I've had no problems with stripping six-bolt disc rotor screws, which, IME, are always Torx head. I get them snug with the driver and then finish them with a torque wrench.

I use a corded screw gun to mount plywood panels in my utility trailer using self-tapping Torx head screws, but they use a large bit and are more resistant to stripping. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/...=1000&wid=1000

-- Jay Beattie.
  #15  
Old May 21st 21, 05:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:06:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2021 9:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/20/2021 7:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?

"Dumb" is sorta subjective, isn't it?

Peel back the rubber lever cover from the back side and
actually look at it. Because it's an aluminum fastener, it's
Torx, not hex. Good engineering/design practice.


I think you misunderstand my meaning. At that particular place a Torx is a very bad decision. You have soft pliable rubber hoods and it is not a particularly good idea to stick something down in there with sharp edges. This is engineering 101. Don't destroy what you go to so much trouble and expense to build.

I don't get your theory.

In practice, any tool slips easily under a rubber cover.
For a small aluminum sleeve fastener, Torx is a better drive
than Allen or PziDrive or Phillips.


The difference in weight from the previous 6 mm bolt and the new Torx 25 is negligible and saying that it is easy ignores the fact that so many new hoods are being sold because the old ones were torn from the torx drivers.
  #16  
Old May 21st 21, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
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Posts: 826
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 18:00:09 UTC+2 schreef :
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:06:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2021 9:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/20/2021 7:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?

"Dumb" is sorta subjective, isn't it?

Peel back the rubber lever cover from the back side and
actually look at it. Because it's an aluminum fastener, it's
Torx, not hex. Good engineering/design practice.

I think you misunderstand my meaning. At that particular place a Torx is a very bad decision. You have soft pliable rubber hoods and it is not a particularly good idea to stick something down in there with sharp edges. This is engineering 101. Don't destroy what you go to so much trouble and expense to build.

I don't get your theory.

In practice, any tool slips easily under a rubber cover.
For a small aluminum sleeve fastener, Torx is a better drive
than Allen or PziDrive or Phillips.

The difference in weight from the previous 6 mm bolt and the new Torx 25 is negligible and saying that it is easy ignores the fact that so many new hoods are being sold because the old ones were torn from the torx drivers.


I admit that mounting levers is always a bit of a struggle, but tearing rubber hoods while doing so you must be very clumsy. That rubber is really tough especially when it is folded back. I always surprised how much they can take when mounting new ones.

Lou
  #17  
Old May 21st 21, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:13:57 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 16:30:20 UTC+2 schreef :
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 12:30:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 02:11:05 UTC+2 schreef :
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?
Its a Torx 25 bolt. Dumb? Torx is a superior interface compared to a hex interface. You better get used to it and buy a set of Torx wrenches. An engineer here at work who uses a allen bolt instead of a Torx in one of their designs get ‘fired’.

Lou, I should add that at the spot in the hoods where the Torx wrench is inserted the hoods on the ones I've seen have been cut by the edges of those. That is bad engineering in anyone's book.

Huh?? Been there done that:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TypuKvYARvRvvmSg8


Lou, I can't even peel the hood back far enough to SEE the complete bolt as your photo shows. Also you can see that you are inserting the Torx at an angle which is not recommended. There is a channel so that you can insert the Torx from the top side under the hood. This allows the Torx driver to be inserted at a very flat angle.
  #18  
Old May 21st 21, 05:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On 5/21/2021 12:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 02:11:05 UTC+2 schreef :
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?


Its a Torx 25 bolt. Dumb? Torx is a superior interface compared to a hex interface. You better get used to it and buy a set of Torx wrenches. An engineer here at work who uses a allen bolt instead of a Torx in one of their designs get ‘fired’.


I wish that some bicycle manufacturer would follow the same termination
scheme. Allen head bolts should be banned.

It's difficult to believe that Tom doesn't have a set of Torx bits or
wrenches. Even the el-cheapo Harbor Freight Torx and E-Torx bits and
wrenches work fine.

I recently put some SKS fenders on my Tern folder. They use some tiny
Allen screws that you need to be very careful with because the heads
strip easily. This would not have happened with Torx screws.

  #19  
Old May 21st 21, 05:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 9:23:19 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/21/2021 12:30 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 21 mei 2021 om 02:11:05 UTC+2 schreef :
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?


Its a Torx 25 bolt. Dumb? Torx is a superior interface compared to a hex interface. You better get used to it and buy a set of Torx wrenches. An engineer here at work who uses a allen bolt instead of a Torx in one of their designs get ‘fired’.

I wish that some bicycle manufacturer would follow the same termination
scheme. Allen head bolts should be banned.

It's difficult to believe that Tom doesn't have a set of Torx bits or
wrenches. Even the el-cheapo Harbor Freight Torx and E-Torx bits and
wrenches work fine.

I recently put some SKS fenders on my Tern folder. They use some tiny
Allen screws that you need to be very careful with because the heads
strip easily. This would not have happened with Torx screws.

Just because you have junk equipment that has all of the components easily accessible doesn't mean that you know what we're talking about.
  #20  
Old May 21st 21, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Centuar Ultra-t-shift sstem

On 5/21/2021 11:00 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 8:06:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2021 9:25 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 5:23:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/20/2021 7:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
I assume that Andrew would be someone that could answer this question, I have a set of the 10 speed Centaur Ultra-shifters. They don't have the same size bolt for locking the shifters onto the handlebars. But the smaller size hex wrench doesn't seem to work.

Do these things use something really dumb like a Torx fitting and if so that would require some special tool and where could that be obtained?

"Dumb" is sorta subjective, isn't it?

Peel back the rubber lever cover from the back side and
actually look at it. Because it's an aluminum fastener, it's
Torx, not hex. Good engineering/design practice.

I think you misunderstand my meaning. At that particular place a Torx is a very bad decision. You have soft pliable rubber hoods and it is not a particularly good idea to stick something down in there with sharp edges. This is engineering 101. Don't destroy what you go to so much trouble and expense to build.

I don't get your theory.

In practice, any tool slips easily under a rubber cover.
For a small aluminum sleeve fastener, Torx is a better drive
than Allen or PziDrive or Phillips.


The difference in weight from the previous 6 mm bolt and the new Torx 25 is negligible and saying that it is easy ignores the fact that so many new hoods are being sold because the old ones were torn from the torx drivers.


If that's true we haven't seen it here.

For an aluminum sleeve fastener, Torx is the better design
over other drives. Mr Holtman, an engineer, mentioned this
fact earlier.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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