Sport Bike vs Race bikes

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:29:36 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 07:22:02 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 6:30:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:28:25 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 5:37:08 p.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:06:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Bikes are now expected to be so light that a damaged frame is a throw away.
Its been 50 years since bike frames were considered repairable. Up through the 1970s, every bike frame was lugged steel. Repairable I guess. But starting in the 1980s, Cannondale made their welded aluminum frames, Look and Trek made lugged carbon frames, Alan and Vitus made lugged aluminum frames. None of these were repairable. Then in the 1990s steel frames were TIG welded, not lugged and brazed. From the 1980s onwards, no bike frames have been repaired when damaged. Just like no one repairs forks or handlebars or rims or cranks. Why not? You could weld all of those back together and repair them.

With cars and houses, we repair those things. But clothes and shoes, we no longer repair those things. Once we did. But not now. My Mom can and does repair some of my clothes that I rip. But most folks don't have Moms who can sew. And wearing ripped clothes is fashionable I think. My Wrangler jeans are $19 for a brand new pair at WalMart. If my Mom could not patch my torn jeans, would it make sense to hire someone to do it? No. The soles on my sneakers eventually wear out. I suspect a cobbler could glue on a new sole. But I can buy new shoes for $50 or less. Does it make sense to repair shoes? For several hundred dollar dress shoes with leather soles, yes. But for most shoes, no. There have been a few threads on this forum about replacing chainrings and people have said you can buy a whole new crankset with new rings for less than you can buy replacement chainrings. Does it make sense to spend more for rings only or just spend less and buy a whole new crankset.
I had a nice Cyclops track frame I built up. When the frame was damaged I wanted to get it repaired but the repair would have cost more than a new frame would have. Ditto for Campagnolo components. You could by parts to repair them with but often the cost of the parts was almost as much as the new component.

This is why I always signed up for adult-ed metal shop if I needed to repair a steel frame. I got access to a nice oxyacetylene set-up, brazing tips, flux, brass, files, etc., etc. Then I'd do a rattle-can paint job or go to a local powder-coater that did production work for Specialized. It was relatively economical. No such option with CF or Aluminum, but those bikes have warranties. I just get new frames if they break -- assuming I didn't do the breaking. My son still has my Cannondale CAAD 9 which is the twice removed replacement for a Cannondale 2.8 I bought in 1992.

I have been really impressed with a combination of powder coating and rattle can detailing. I repaired a Pinarello that I was hit on by some jerk woman and it was better than new.
Out of curiosity, what do you pay for powder coating a bicycle frame
and does that include glass bead blasting to get the frame perfectly
clean before coating?

They usually quote bead blast and powder coating together, and it used to be about $100 locally for both, but that was a long time ago. Even with rattle cans, you have to spend time and money, and the $100 price tag was reasonable. It's probably three times that now.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:29:36 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 07:22:02 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 6:30:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:28:25 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 5:37:08 p.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:06:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Bikes are now expected to be so light that a damaged frame is a throw away.
Its been 50 years since bike frames were considered repairable. Up through the 1970s, every bike frame was lugged steel. Repairable I guess. But starting in the 1980s, Cannondale made their welded aluminum frames, Look and Trek made lugged carbon frames, Alan and Vitus made lugged aluminum frames. None of these were repairable. Then in the 1990s steel frames were TIG welded, not lugged and brazed. From the 1980s onwards, no bike frames have been repaired when damaged. Just like no one repairs forks or handlebars or rims or cranks. Why not? You could weld all of those back together and repair them.

With cars and houses, we repair those things. But clothes and shoes, we no longer repair those things. Once we did. But not now. My Mom can and does repair some of my clothes that I rip. But most folks don't have Moms who can sew. And wearing ripped clothes is fashionable I think. My Wrangler jeans are $19 for a brand new pair at WalMart. If my Mom could not patch my torn jeans, would it make sense to hire someone to do it? No. The soles on my sneakers eventually wear out. I suspect a cobbler could glue on a new sole. But I can buy new shoes for $50 or less. Does it make sense to repair shoes? For several hundred dollar dress shoes with leather soles, yes. But for most shoes, no. There have been a few threads on this forum about replacing chainrings and people have said you can buy a whole new crankset with new rings for less than you can buy replacement chainrings. Does it make sense to spend more for rings only or just spend less and buy a whole new crankset.
I had a nice Cyclops track frame I built up. When the frame was damaged I wanted to get it repaired but the repair would have cost more than a new frame would have. Ditto for Campagnolo components. You could by parts to repair them with but often the cost of the parts was almost as much as the new component.

This is why I always signed up for adult-ed metal shop if I needed to repair a steel frame. I got access to a nice oxyacetylene set-up, brazing tips, flux, brass, files, etc., etc. Then I'd do a rattle-can paint job or go to a local powder-coater that did production work for Specialized. It was relatively economical. No such option with CF or Aluminum, but those bikes have warranties. I just get new frames if they break -- assuming I didn't do the breaking. My son still has my Cannondale CAAD 9 which is the twice removed replacement for a Cannondale 2.8 I bought in 1992.

I have been really impressed with a combination of powder coating and rattle can detailing. I repaired a Pinarello that I was hit on by some jerk woman and it was better than new.
Out of curiosity, what do you pay for powder coating a bicycle frame
and does that include glass bead blasting to get the frame perfectly
clean before coating?

They usually quote bead blast and powder coating together,
and it used to be about $100 locally for both, but that was a long
time ago. Even with rattle cans, you have to spend time and money,
and the $100 price tag was reasonable. It's probably three times that
now.

-- Jay Beattie.

I was just cuprous as I had my stuff done by a bloke who I had "helped
out" a few times and his "Office Girl" used to set the prices so I've
always assumed that he had told her, "just get a bit to cover the
materials" or something like that. I was paying 1,000 baht for a frame
and fork, two colors max, which is about $30. But, of course, prices
here are much lower then "there", as are salaries :-) And, it was a
few years ago too.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:11:29 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 5:29:36 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jun 2021 07:22:02 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 6:30:22 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:28:25 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 5:37:08 p.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:06:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Bikes are now expected to be so light that a damaged frame is a throw away.
Its been 50 years since bike frames were considered repairable. Up through the 1970s, every bike frame was lugged steel. Repairable I guess.. But starting in the 1980s, Cannondale made their welded aluminum frames, Look and Trek made lugged carbon frames, Alan and Vitus made lugged aluminum frames. None of these were repairable. Then in the 1990s steel frames were TIG welded, not lugged and brazed. From the 1980s onwards, no bike frames have been repaired when damaged. Just like no one repairs forks or handlebars or rims or cranks. Why not? You could weld all of those back together and repair them.

With cars and houses, we repair those things. But clothes and shoes, we no longer repair those things. Once we did. But not now. My Mom can and does repair some of my clothes that I rip. But most folks don't have Moms who can sew. And wearing ripped clothes is fashionable I think. My Wrangler jeans are $19 for a brand new pair at WalMart. If my Mom could not patch my torn jeans, would it make sense to hire someone to do it? No. The soles on my sneakers eventually wear out. I suspect a cobbler could glue on a new sole. But I can buy new shoes for $50 or less. Does it make sense to repair shoes? For several hundred dollar dress shoes with leather soles, yes. But for most shoes, no. There have been a few threads on this forum about replacing chainrings and people have said you can buy a whole new crankset with new rings for less than you can buy replacement chainrings. Does it make sense to spend more for rings only or just spend less and buy a whole new crankset.
I had a nice Cyclops track frame I built up. When the frame was damaged I wanted to get it repaired but the repair would have cost more than a new frame would have. Ditto for Campagnolo components. You could by parts to repair them with but often the cost of the parts was almost as much as the new component.

This is why I always signed up for adult-ed metal shop if I needed to repair a steel frame. I got access to a nice oxyacetylene set-up, brazing tips, flux, brass, files, etc., etc. Then I'd do a rattle-can paint job or go to a local powder-coater that did production work for Specialized. It was relatively economical. No such option with CF or Aluminum, but those bikes have warranties. I just get new frames if they break -- assuming I didn't do the breaking. My son still has my Cannondale CAAD 9 which is the twice removed replacement for a Cannondale 2.8 I bought in 1992.

I have been really impressed with a combination of powder coating and rattle can detailing. I repaired a Pinarello that I was hit on by some jerk woman and it was better than new.
Out of curiosity, what do you pay for powder coating a bicycle frame
and does that include glass bead blasting to get the frame perfectly
clean before coating?

They usually quote bead blast and powder coating together, and it used to be about $100 locally for both, but that was a long time ago. Even with rattle cans, you have to spend time and money, and the $100 price tag was reasonable. It's probably three times that now.

-- Jay Beattie.
Three blocks from my home I can get a powder coat if I'm not using any special paint for $100. On the Pinarello I used a special color metallic and it was $175. But that might have been because they didn't have any time after shelving and such and they were totally powder coating a deuce coupe.