#51
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Truing Stand
On 6/7/2021 9:17 PM, pH wrote:
On 2021-06-07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/6/2021 10:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: It was hard to screw-up 120mm/36 spoke wheels on SC Mod 52 or other robust rims of the era. Apart from instruction from a friend and shop owner and the Wright pamphlet and later Jobst's book (which I bought at Cupertino Bike Shop immediately after its release), practically all my cohorts built wheels -- and we all hung out at the same shop owned by Mr. Wheel Guru, who ran twice-weekly shop rides (races) -- and half of them worked for brand-new Specialized Bicycle Components and lived and breathed bike stuff. I knew Phil Wood (his son was a friend), so that's the direction I went after probably '75/6, although I had some racing wheels with Campy hubs Anyway, wheel building was a thing back then -- as it was on this NG during Jobst's tenure. Now is wheels in a box. Things change. And I'll bet that "wheels in a box" came about largely due to the development of automated wheel building machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITEQLn8SUE Thank God for engineers! Peter White of Peter White cycles is still building wheels and I'm sure our Mr. Muzi gets to go home and lace a rim or three while watching TV once in awhile (that's why my bike shop owning friend said he used to do). Now I feel like taking a spare front wheel down, taking it apart and building it, just for fun. pH I haven't built a wheel outside the shop since the day I started working here. And I don't own a television. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#52
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Truing Stand
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 5:50:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 9:17 PM, pH wrote: On 2021-06-07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/6/2021 10:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: It was hard to screw-up 120mm/36 spoke wheels on SC Mod 52 or other robust rims of the era. Apart from instruction from a friend and shop owner and the Wright pamphlet and later Jobst's book (which I bought at Cupertino Bike Shop immediately after its release), practically all my cohorts built wheels -- and we all hung out at the same shop owned by Mr. Wheel Guru, who ran twice-weekly shop rides (races) -- and half of them worked for brand-new Specialized Bicycle Components and lived and breathed bike stuff. I knew Phil Wood (his son was a friend), so that's the direction I went after probably '75/6, although I had some racing wheels with Campy hubs Anyway, wheel building was a thing back then -- as it was on this NG during Jobst's tenure. Now is wheels in a box. Things change. And I'll bet that "wheels in a box" came about largely due to the development of automated wheel building machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITEQLn8SUE Thank God for engineers! Peter White of Peter White cycles is still building wheels and I'm sure our Mr. Muzi gets to go home and lace a rim or three while watching TV once in awhile (that's why my bike shop owning friend said he used to do). Now I feel like taking a spare front wheel down, taking it apart and building it, just for fun. pH I haven't built a wheel outside the shop since the day I started working here. And I don't own a television. I own a bunch of TVs. And as a matter of fact, going back to the obsolescence thing, the TV in my bedroom -- an older Vizio LCD -- died the other day, so we went to Costco and bought a cheap replacement, and then I felt guilty about dumping a 42" LCD TV, so I opened the back and found a burned-out resistor on the power board, like a half-watt .15 ohm (brown, green, silver, gold), which is not an easy resistor to find on the interweb. A burned out resistor could also mean up stream problems, so I just bought a NOS power board for $39. I popped that in, and it works like a charm. That TV can go in the guest bedroom -- or to someone who wants a TV and not into a landfill (yet). Maybe it can be my Zwift TV -- if I had Zwift and a smart trainer. My trainer is stupid, but I never say that to its face. -- Jay Beattie. |
#53
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Truing Stand
On 6/8/2021 10:50 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 5:50:27 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 6/7/2021 9:17 PM, pH wrote: On 2021-06-07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/6/2021 10:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: It was hard to screw-up 120mm/36 spoke wheels on SC Mod 52 or other robust rims of the era. Apart from instruction from a friend and shop owner and the Wright pamphlet and later Jobst's book (which I bought at Cupertino Bike Shop immediately after its release), practically all my cohorts built wheels -- and we all hung out at the same shop owned by Mr. Wheel Guru, who ran twice-weekly shop rides (races) -- and half of them worked for brand-new Specialized Bicycle Components and lived and breathed bike stuff. I knew Phil Wood (his son was a friend), so that's the direction I went after probably '75/6, although I had some racing wheels with Campy hubs Anyway, wheel building was a thing back then -- as it was on this NG during Jobst's tenure. Now is wheels in a box. Things change. And I'll bet that "wheels in a box" came about largely due to the development of automated wheel building machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITEQLn8SUE Thank God for engineers! Peter White of Peter White cycles is still building wheels and I'm sure our Mr. Muzi gets to go home and lace a rim or three while watching TV once in awhile (that's why my bike shop owning friend said he used to do). Now I feel like taking a spare front wheel down, taking it apart and building it, just for fun. pH I haven't built a wheel outside the shop since the day I started working here. And I don't own a television. I own a bunch of TVs. And as a matter of fact, going back to the obsolescence thing, the TV in my bedroom -- an older Vizio LCD -- died the other day, so we went to Costco and bought a cheap replacement, and then I felt guilty about dumping a 42" LCD TV, so I opened the back and found a burned-out resistor on the power board, like a half-watt .15 ohm (brown, green, silver, gold), which is not an easy resistor to find on the interweb. A burned out resistor could also mean up stream problems, so I just bought a NOS power board for $39. I popped that in, and it works like a charm. I went that route with our previous flat screen TV, first replacing some bulged capacitors, then paying Ebay for a used power supply. Then paying $20 to our county's recycling program to dispose of it responsibly. And that's the problem with ever-more-computerized appliances. Some evil voodoo practitioner stabs a needle into a model of your device and the curse can never be diagnosed, let alone cured. It's why I'll never have electronic shifting. Our most-used music playing device (radio, CD, cassette tape) is now wonky. CDs play each track over and over because the "Repeat" function won't turn off. Hitting "Volume Up" changes the radio station, etc. But a repair shop charges $80 to get it in the door and look at it, with no guarantee of fixing it. :-( -- - Frank Krygowski |
#54
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Truing Stand
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 5:46:44 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
And that's the problem with ever-more-computerized appliances. Some evil voodoo practitioner stabs a needle into a model of your device and the curse can never be diagnosed, let alone cured. It's why I'll never have electronic shifting. In my case Di2 proved to be so incredible reliable and low maintenance that I will never return to mechanical shifting for no other reason than this. I have 3 Di2 bikes. The only thing I have to do is charge the battery now and then and even the battery proved to be incredible on all three bikes and it is only 500 mAh. A couple of weeks ago I got a 'Di2 battery running low' warning on my Wahoo headunit. I could not even remember when I charged that battery for the last time so I thought lets see what will happen if I just continu to ride. After 5 rides of around 3 hours I gave up. It still shifted. I just charged it. Lou |
#55
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Truing Stand
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 11:44:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 5:46:44 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: And that's the problem with ever-more-computerized appliances. Some evil voodoo practitioner stabs a needle into a model of your device and the curse can never be diagnosed, let alone cured. It's why I'll never have electronic shifting. In my case Di2 proved to be so incredible reliable and low maintenance that I will never return to mechanical shifting for no other reason than this.. I have 3 Di2 bikes. The only thing I have to do is charge the battery now and then and even the battery proved to be incredible on all three bikes and it is only 500 mAh. A couple of weeks ago I got a 'Di2 battery running low' warning on my Wahoo headunit. I could not even remember when I charged that battery for the last time so I thought lets see what will happen if I just continu to ride. After 5 rides of around 3 hours I gave up. It still shifted. I just charged it. Lou, my experience with Di2 is like yours. Shifting is fast and quiet and 100% reliable. The only thing you have to worry about is that the battery lasts so long you might forget to charge it since you may not need a charge for 6 months. The set-up is so easy that anyone that can use a computer can do it in a couple of minutes and the initial alignment only requires a pretty coarse adjustment to put it in the middle of its range and then it works perfectly from then on. I was having troubles with remembering which lever to push to do what since they are so close together so I set it up so that the large lever is for "faster" and the small levers is for lower gears. I thought this was my own memory weakness but the group I bought from Team CCC was set up exactly the same. |
#56
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Truing Stand
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 8:21:48 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 8:06 PM, wrote: On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 6:57:27 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:45:12 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:01:37 PM UTC-7, pH wrote: On 2021-06-04, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/3/2021 8:17 PM, AMuzi wrote: BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally build wheels now (when employees are 'too good' for some jobs and some customers). The result is the same. Although a stand with good lighting can be more convenient it's not essential. I built my first wheel riding in a VW van during the long drive to the airport for our first overseas bike tour. I used the inverted bike frame as the truing stand. Those were the days! Did you use Jobst's book to do the lacing, Robert Wright's "Wright-built" technique or are you just a super-genius who figured it out on his own? I got loand the 'wright built' pamphlet by a coworker and used it to do the lacing on my rims. I never used Jobst's published technique, but it look like his way would have avoided the spoke weaving I had to do for the last course of spokes. The tensioning process was always tough...getting the 'hop' out. I always took care to turn each nipple the same amount before tension began being appreciable, but, still.... I ended up with a good result but I sure don't feel like natural. How many spokes were your wheels? As a Clydesdale I do 40 in front and 48 in back. I was originally shown by a bike builder in Hayward. In those day wheels were 36 and/or 32 spokes. The idea of the weaving was to keep the spokes from pinging against one another if they were done that way. Once you got the hang of it you didn't even have to look at it. You would cut the spokes the proper length and then tighten the nipples up to three threads from tight and then take a half turn on every spoke until you have them as tight as they would go, which wasn't very tight on a 36 spoke wheel. If you had a hop in the wheel you did something wrong. You must be remarkably big if you need anything more than 36 spoke wheels. Cut the spokes? WTF? Did you have a Phil spoke thread roller? -- Jay Beattie. I was confused by that comment too. I always just order the right spoke lengths, minus a couple millimeters to account for stretch. Spokes come in 2 millimeter increments I think. Sapim or Wheelsmith or DT. "right spoke lengths, minus a couple millimeters to account for stretch" We use stainless drawn spokes here which don't. How many miles do you get on those pasta spokes? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Thought it was common knowledge to round down on spoke calculators. I know you want the spoke end to be at the bottom of the slot in the nipple when its completely laced up tight. Not sticking up into the slot. In theory might run out of threads on the spoke to tighten it. There is some spoke stretch, hub hole deformation, rim eyelet bulging occurring during the tightening process. Below is from the Park Tool website. I don't know how much those numbers are. But guessing its quite a bit. I'm sure the stainless steel used in spokes is not impervious to everything. Its not Superman. So it will stretch and break with enough force. I'd guess every rider on this forum has broken stainless spokes on rides. "Most rims have suggested ranges from 100 to 120 Kilograms-force, or 980 to 1177 Newtons." |
#57
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Truing Stand
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#59
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Truing Stand
On 2021-06-08, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 9:17 PM, pH wrote: On 2021-06-07, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/6/2021 10:08 PM, jbeattie wrote: It was hard to screw-up 120mm/36 spoke wheels on SC Mod 52 or other robust rims of the era. Apart from instruction from a friend and shop owner and the Wright pamphlet and later Jobst's book (which I bought at Cupertino Bike Shop immediately after its release), practically all my cohorts built wheels -- and we all hung out at the same shop owned by Mr. Wheel Guru, who ran twice-weekly shop rides (races) -- and half of them worked for brand-new Specialized Bicycle Components and lived and breathed bike stuff. I knew Phil Wood (his son was a friend), so that's the direction I went after probably '75/6, although I had some racing wheels with Campy hubs Anyway, wheel building was a thing back then -- as it was on this NG during Jobst's tenure. Now is wheels in a box. Things change. And I'll bet that "wheels in a box" came about largely due to the development of automated wheel building machines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITEQLn8SUE Thank God for engineers! Peter White of Peter White cycles is still building wheels and I'm sure our Mr. Muzi gets to go home and lace a rim or three while watching TV once in awhile (that's why my bike shop owning friend said he used to do). Now I feel like taking a spare front wheel down, taking it apart and building it, just for fun. pH I haven't built a wheel outside the shop since the day I started working here. And I don't own a television. Wow. No TV here, either. Do videos on the computer (computah for Jeff) count? When I go to my mom's where the tv is always on, it seems to be like watching sausage being made. There are some Startrek reruns at night and I do like trying to find ones I haven't seen yet. pH |
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