Bidens on bikes!!!!!!!!!!

On 6/10/2021 9:55 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 3:41 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:

[ ... ]

Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/


CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/


The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'. That's too
far over the line for me.

No visas were required for aliens wishing to enter the US prior to 1918,
were we not then a nation?


That's insightful. So I thought about it.

A lot has changed.

In 1900, total US tax burden, local, county, state and federal was
under 10% of GDP. One might bemoan the ethos 'work or starve' but
that's how it was generally.

As Milton Friedman famously concluded 'You can have a welfare state or
open borders, but not both.' I think he makes a very good point.

Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are IMHO a clear
and present danger. We have plenty of dangers here already.

The cost of social welfare is one part of the puzzle, another one is
just the increasing ability of states to micromanage people. When
Fernando and Ysabel kicked all the Muslims and Jews out of Spain no one
objected that they weren't allowed to do that -- they were sovereign.
But the modern beaurocratic centralized approach of passports for all
with a stamp for each coming and going was just not doable, so they had
to rely on the Spanish Inquisition.

It's true that detailed migration control has become a sine qua non for
a state above the failed level, like a highway system or a working
airport. It's useful to remember that those requirements are of a
similar age.

I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.



The dole is more than a cash outlay by the taxpayers. It
changes society. Where the benefits are large the effects
can become pernicious. A perusal of any large city's
overnight news will confirm that.

And culture matters. Legal immigrants desirous of
assimilating into this country (a country where one may
become truly thoroughly USAian unlike some countries despite
legal status) are IMHO fundamentally different from illegals
in their experiences, assimilation, productivity, civic
participation etc. Are there exceptions? Sure but I see that
difference generally.

USA more than any country in history has welcomed immigrants
and we have flourished. I am not opposed to immigration at
all. I am opposed to slavery, child trafficking, criminals
and foreign agents meandering across our borders at will.
Which by the way is as prevalent in airports as in the
Arizona desert, (just different groups with more or less
resources).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/10/2021 7:55 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.

There are unintended side effects of the combination of strict border
control and the lack of guest worker programs.

I recently experienced this in Utah. We were in a tourist town near Zion
and the Grand Canyon. Most of the restaurants were closed. The fast food
restaurants opened their drive-thrus only and had long lines. It wasn't
related to Covid-19. I finally asked a cashier in a supermarket what was
going on and she explained that there were not enough local residents to
fill the restaurant jobs and there was no longer enough migrant labor to
hire.

The shortage of foreign workers has also hit farms very hard, especially
dairy farms that need year-round workers:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/capital-region/news/2019/02/23/dairy-farmers-struggle-with-labor-shortage--trade-issues.

We need the reintroduction of a guest worker program, like we had under
Reagan but many congressional Republicans have opposed this
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/498842-conservative-lawmakers-press-trump-to-suspend-guest-worker-programs-for-a-year.
OTOH, even Republicans from states that depend on agricultural workers
favor a guest worker program. Sane Republicans (yes, there still are
some of those!) are being attacked by hard-line crazy Republicans over
support for guest worker programs
https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/texas-gop-congressman-supports-guest-worker-program/story?id=18001159.

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 1:29:39 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2021 6:16 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 3:52:47 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2021 5:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 2:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/9/2021 10:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 8:19 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2021 9:27 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 21:53:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/8/2021 3:11 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 8:26:06 PM UTC-7, John B.
wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:37:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/7/2021 6:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 12:56:51 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
"insurrection" when you know damn well that it
was
not an
insurrection since there was NO arms of any sort
used and that the
only fatality was 3 people who had heart attacks
at the rally and the
one woman who was murdered by that capital police
officer who has
remained unnamed.

And yet when the cops murder and shoot down the
protesters at BLM
rallies, protests, they are canonized as saints
and
martyrs by your
side. And any court proceeding against the cops is
demonized. Odd.


Was there an instance of police shooting protesters
last year? I must
have missed that.

I do remember several innocent bystanders, business
owners and policemen
murdered by mobs:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-unrest-acled




And returning to a mode of thought I frequently use:

I wonder how many people die in protests in Canada?
Or Great Britain? Or
Germany ... etc.
Perhaps it is not simply "protests" The intentional
homicide rate in
Canada is 1.76/100,000, in G.B. 1.20, in Germany 0.95
and in the U.S.
it is 4.96.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate




And yet you stupid SOB - why did you leave out
Jamaica with 56
Venezuela with 50
Belize with 38
South Africa with 36
San Lucia with 29
Dominica with 27
Guatemala with 26
Mexico with 26
or even Russia with TWICE the level as the US?

Why don't you mention that Biden and the Democrats
have
been inviting
PEOPLE from ALL of these countries to come to the US and
bring their
quaint ways with them?

???

"Kamala Harris to Potential Migrants: ‘Do Not Come’"

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris...194611043.html




Gee... "PEOPLE from ALL of these countries to come to
the
US and bring
their quaint ways with them?" Goodness Gracious! People
with names
like Kunich, Krygowski, Muzi ?


There is an orderly process with both Constitutional
basis
and a host of applicable statutes. My son in law spent 8
years to become a USAian which is typical of legal
immigration (and I have sponsored immigrants who also
completed theirs). An open border is not at all relevant
to the subject.

I've personally "sponsored" only one immigrant (that is,
helped him arrive here and apply for political asylum).
I've
worked with many immigrants, I have several immigrant
friends and other immigrant acquaintances. Some of those
acquaintances may be illegal; I've never asked.

But I've never spoken with anyone who advocated "open
borders." I'm sure those people may exist, but I take them
no more seriously than the nuts who say "I'm taking my
yard
and seceding from the United States."



Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/



CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/



The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'.
That's too far over the line for me.

My argument is in favor of laws, even though I understand
that no laws are perfectly obeyed.

I've never said it's a good idea to let anyone and everyone
into the USA. Likewise, I've never said it's a good idea to
let anyone and everyone own rapid fire guns with capacity
for lots of rounds.

I think my position is pretty consistent.

Well THAT'S a relief.
When The Powers That Be decide I can't have one of these,
maybe I could borrow yours?

https://www.military.com/equipment/m4-carbine

According to Franks every one of those "killed" at protests was jus standing around and doing nuttin. They were burning and looting or pointing a gun at a cop or throwing Molotov cocktails.

It was like his bull**** about George Floyd who according to Frank was killed by a cop kneeing on his neck and purposely asphyxiating him. To bad the lapel cameras of the cops had a completely different story. The cops were serving a warrant for his arrest as he was sitting in the back seat of his pusher's car after having purchased and consumed a ton of fentanyl after being off of it for 6 weeks or so while he was in prison. You can tell that he had taken it BEFORE the cops got there and not swallowed it to hide it because he was saying "I can't breath" before he got out of the back of the pusher's car. This was shown by the lapel cameras of the police. They placed him in the back of the police SUV and he started having an overdose toxicity seizure and slid out of the car and onto the ground next to the police car. With the seizure in progress the partner called an ambulance and Officer Chauvin tried to keep him still and kneels in Floyd's shoulder with his RIGHT knee. From the a
ngle that smartphone video was taken it APPEARED that Chauvin was kneeling on his neck with his LEFT knee but he wasn't because Floyd could be plainly heard saying "I can't breath". So there was NO pressure on his neck that could cause any sort of medical problems.

Leftists have never a thought in their heads that looks can be sometimes deceiving. In Franks case, he is simply anti-conservative and he would believe absolutely any lie without questioning a word of it if he though he could use it to bludgeon any conservative. Let's see how Frank likes it after Biden prices everything out of his reach and then gives extra money to the illegal aliens.

You'll never become a member of The Party writing things
like that. You probably watched the entire video series (as
did I) but not the edited version presented to the jury.

Mr Chauvin was convicted. You or I may well be next.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
..
Not just you and him. When downhill bombers "shredding" the countryside lied to convict Mike Vand4man, and the DA facilitated their perjury, I wondered how long it would be before some prissy pauselips comes for cyclists for being cyclists, and is backed up buyan obese DA who thinks cycling is dangerously beyond the lowest common denominator. Won't be long now. -- AJ

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 11:48:47 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/10/2021 7:55 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.
There are unintended side effects of the combination of strict border
control and the lack of guest worker programs.

I recently experienced this in Utah. We were in a tourist town near Zion
and the Grand Canyon. Most of the restaurants were closed. The fast food
restaurants opened their drive-thrus only and had long lines. It wasn't
related to Covid-19. I finally asked a cashier in a supermarket what was
going on and she explained that there were not enough local residents to
fill the restaurant jobs and there was no longer enough migrant labor to
hire.

The shortage of foreign workers has also hit farms very hard, especially
dairy farms that need year-round workers:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/capital-region/news/2019/02/23/dairy-farmers-struggle-with-labor-shortage--trade-issues.

We need the reintroduction of a guest worker program, like we had under
Reagan but many congressional Republicans have opposed this
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/498842-conservative-lawmakers-press-trump-to-suspend-guest-worker-programs-for-a-year.
OTOH, even Republicans from states that depend on agricultural workers
favor a guest worker program. Sane Republicans (yes, there still are
some of those!) are being attacked by hard-line crazy Republicans over
support for guest worker programs
https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/texas-gop-congressman-supports-guest-worker-program/story?id=18001159.
The hilarious part about all of this is that Scharf doesn't know that all of the migrant workers are being paid what amounts to unemployment in cities.

Tom Kunich writes:

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 7:55:21 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 3:41 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
[ ... ]
Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/


CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/


The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'. That's too
far over the line for me.

No visas were required for aliens wishing to enter the US prior to 1918,
were we not then a nation?


That's insightful. So I thought about it.

A lot has changed.

In 1900, total US tax burden, local, county, state and federal was
under 10% of GDP. One might bemoan the ethos 'work or starve' but
that's how it was generally.

As Milton Friedman famously concluded 'You can have a welfare state or
open borders, but not both.' I think he makes a very good point.

Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are IMHO a clear
and present danger. We have plenty of dangers here already.
The cost of social welfare is one part of the puzzle, another one is
just the increasing ability of states to micromanage people. When
Fernando and Ysabel kicked all the Muslims and Jews out of Spain no one
objected that they weren't allowed to do that -- they were sovereign.
But the modern beaurocratic centralized approach of passports for all
with a stamp for each coming and going was just not doable, so they had
to rely on the Spanish Inquisition.

It's true that detailed migration control has become a sine qua non for
a state above the failed level, like a highway system or a working
airport. It's useful to remember that those requirements are of a
similar age.

I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.
Most of the world does NOT have open borders. Even in the EU they have
immigration controls and even those are so lax that they got
themselves Brexit. If YOU think that you can immigrate to China just
try it. If you think that you can immigrate to Russia try
it. Socialist Countries are the LEAST open because they already cannot
pay for their own populations of natives.

I said "had". It was never easy to move from living in one country to
living in another, but official controls at borders were not always the
rule.

--

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 7:55:21 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 3:41 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
[ ... ]
Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/


CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/


The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'. That's too
far over the line for me.

No visas were required for aliens wishing to enter the US prior to 1918,
were we not then a nation?


That's insightful. So I thought about it.

A lot has changed.

In 1900, total US tax burden, local, county, state and federal was
under 10% of GDP. One might bemoan the ethos 'work or starve' but
that's how it was generally.

As Milton Friedman famously concluded 'You can have a welfare state or
open borders, but not both.' I think he makes a very good point.

Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are IMHO a clear
and present danger. We have plenty of dangers here already.
The cost of social welfare is one part of the puzzle, another one is
just the increasing ability of states to micromanage people. When
Fernando and Ysabel kicked all the Muslims and Jews out of Spain no one
objected that they weren't allowed to do that -- they were sovereign.
But the modern beaurocratic centralized approach of passports for all
with a stamp for each coming and going was just not doable, so they had
to rely on the Spanish Inquisition.

It's true that detailed migration control has become a sine qua non for
a state above the failed level, like a highway system or a working
airport. It's useful to remember that those requirements are of a
similar age.

I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.
Most of the world does NOT have open borders. Even in the EU they have
immigration controls and even those are so lax that they got
themselves Brexit. If YOU think that you can immigrate to China just
try it. If you think that you can immigrate to Russia try
it. Socialist Countries are the LEAST open because they already cannot
pay for their own populations of natives.
I said "had". It was never easy to move from living in one country to
living in another, but official controls at borders were not always the
rule.

--
Even the Romans and the Greeks had border controls. The middle east discovered the hard way with the Crusaders what they should have been doing and thereafter took stronger border policing. The Turks to this day know all about this.

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 10:10:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are
IMHO a clear and present danger. We have plenty of dangers
here already.

Yep. The first thing the new immigrants do is bring in their
relatives.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/63737...hain-migration
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...185_story.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45137752






--
Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:51:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/10/2021 9:55 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 3:41 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:

[ ... ]

Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/


CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/


The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'. That's too
far over the line for me.

No visas were required for aliens wishing to enter the US prior to 1918,
were we not then a nation?


That's insightful. So I thought about it.

A lot has changed.

In 1900, total US tax burden, local, county, state and federal was
under 10% of GDP. One might bemoan the ethos 'work or starve' but
that's how it was generally.

As Milton Friedman famously concluded 'You can have a welfare state or
open borders, but not both.' I think he makes a very good point.

Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are IMHO a clear
and present danger. We have plenty of dangers here already.

The cost of social welfare is one part of the puzzle, another one is
just the increasing ability of states to micromanage people. When
Fernando and Ysabel kicked all the Muslims and Jews out of Spain no one
objected that they weren't allowed to do that -- they were sovereign.
But the modern beaurocratic centralized approach of passports for all
with a stamp for each coming and going was just not doable, so they had
to rely on the Spanish Inquisition.

It's true that detailed migration control has become a sine qua non for
a state above the failed level, like a highway system or a working
airport. It's useful to remember that those requirements are of a
similar age.

I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.



The dole is more than a cash outlay by the taxpayers. It
changes society. Where the benefits are large the effects
can become pernicious. A perusal of any large city's
overnight news will confirm that.


Years ago I read a study made in Detroit, when the car plants were
still open. The study was intended to lessen unemployment in Detroit,
which the article stated were into the 3rd generations.

To implement the study they got various auto plants to come up with
non-skilled jobs that were filled with long term unemployed.

The article stated that the study was terminated as these unemployed
would come to work for one or two days after being "hired" and then it
seemed that it was simply too much bother. They had never worked,
their parents had never worked and in some cases their grandparents,
and they saw no reason to work.



And culture matters. Legal immigrants desirous of
assimilating into this country (a country where one may
become truly thoroughly USAian unlike some countries despite
legal status) are IMHO fundamentally different from illegals
in their experiences, assimilation, productivity, civic
participation etc. Are there exceptions? Sure but I see that
difference generally.

USA more than any country in history has welcomed immigrants
and we have flourished. I am not opposed to immigration at
all. I am opposed to slavery, child trafficking, criminals
and foreign agents meandering across our borders at will.
Which by the way is as prevalent in airports as in the
Arizona desert, (just different groups with more or less
resources).
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 3:04:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 10:10:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are
IMHO a clear and present danger. We have plenty of dangers
here already.

Yep. The first thing the new immigrants do is bring in their
relatives.
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/63737...hain-migration
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...185_story.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45137752

Let me see if I have you correctly - Milania Trump entered the US in 2006 and her parents coming in in 2018 is an example of Chain Migration such as Guatemalan parents sending their children on perilous journeys alone or in the company of coyotes and then expecting to be reunited the NEXT day?

I must say, you really are fast with your research into whether or not they put in for citizenship a decade before.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 5:04:48 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 3:04:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 10:10:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are
IMHO a clear and present danger. We have plenty of dangers
here already.

Yep. The first thing the new immigrants do is bring in their
relatives.
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/63737...hain-migration
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...185_story.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45137752
Let me see if I have you correctly - Milania Trump entered the US in 2006 and her parents coming in in 2018 is an example of Chain Migration such as Guatemalan parents sending their children on perilous journeys alone or in the company of coyotes and then expecting to be reunited the NEXT day?

I must say, you really are fast with your research into whether or not they put in for citizenship a decade before.
..
I've noticed before that "Brains Trust" and " are mutually exclusive terms. -- AJ
..