Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! ___________ ylojceq

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
news

Both sides were spinning hard in the recent election, but the
degree of lies was far higher on the administration.

And John knows this because he's involved in the government.

May you all have good food and good digestion on this day of gratitude
for the plentitude of resources bestowed upon Americans. And have a
thought or two for sharing those benefits with those who don't have
the same easy access to them.

And say thanks to America's farmers- who posted an average annual loss
of almost $2500 per farm in Iowa last year, which was a significant
improvement compared to average losses of $7500 in 2002. Without
them, we'd all be hungry today.

May you all have good food and good digestion on this day of gratitude
for the plentitude of resources bestowed upon Americans. And have a
thought or two for sharing those benefits with those who don't have
the same easy access to them.

And say thanks to America's farmers- who posted an average annual loss
of almost $2500 per farm in Iowa last year, which was a significant
improvement compared to average losses of $7500 in 2002. Without
them, we'd all be hungry today.

Retro Bob wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:41:32 GMT, Steve
wrote:
"And Carter was actually a great
President."

Jimmy Carter is the best *ex* President we've ever had. Too bad he had
to be President first.

No, when you throw away the venal rhetoric of his
detractors and look at his conduct in office, you realize
he was actually pretty good at it.

--Blair
"He didn't make things worse,
the way the current retard is."

Retro Bob wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:41:32 GMT, Steve
wrote:
"And Carter was actually a great
President."

Jimmy Carter is the best *ex* President we've ever had. Too bad he had
to be President first.

No, when you throw away the venal rhetoric of his
detractors and look at his conduct in office, you realize
he was actually pretty good at it.

--Blair
"He didn't make things worse,
the way the current retard is."

In article t,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

Now you're talking out of your ass. Among "factcheck.org"'s many
"accuracies" was taking that "dead bodies list" that was circulating about
Clinton, investigating the LEAST likely entries on that list and then
proclaiming that the entire list was false.

That list was, frankly, quite ludicrous. It was nothing but inuendo
galore. Like those "two young boys murdered by Clinton operatives"
business. By the way, what the hell makes someone an "operative"? Judging
by the line of thought in the "dead bodies list", one could easily conclude
that Charles Manson was a Reagan "operative".

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm

--
tanx,
Howard

"You ain't having fun until you're dialing 911"
Atomic 7

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article t,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

Now you're talking out of your ass. Among "factcheck.org"'s many
"accuracies" was taking that "dead bodies list" that was circulating about
Clinton, investigating the LEAST likely entries on that list and then
proclaiming that the entire list was false.

That list was, frankly, quite ludicrous. It was nothing but inuendo
galore. Like those "two young boys murdered by Clinton operatives"
business. By the way, what the hell makes someone an "operative"? Judging
by the line of thought in the "dead bodies list", one could easily conclude
that Charles Manson was a Reagan "operative".

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/clinton.htm

--
tanx,
Howard

"You ain't having fun until you're dialing 911"
Atomic 7

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article t,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

Now you're talking out of your ass. Among "factcheck.org"'s many
"accuracies" was taking that "dead bodies list" that was circulating about
Clinton, investigating the LEAST likely entries on that list and then
proclaiming that the entire list was false.

That's right. I forgot. Yes, everyone knows that Clinton was busy
killing off all of his opposition. Sure, it's been all over the news.
How could factcheck.org have gotten that wrong? I think they also
missed it big on the Moon Made of Cheese story. Did they send anyone to
the moon to see if it was made of cheese? No! They took some egghead
scientists word for it! For shame!

By the way, do you buy your tinfoil hats premade or do you make your own?

I noted an especially egrigious example concerning Vancouver, WA, police but
I notice that you didn't bother to comment on that one.

According to your post, this was a story about stolen yard signs. I got
news for you, Tom, that happens in every district in the country, and it
happens to candidates of both parties. It's not even worthy of local
news. So, even if Factcheck.org is wrong, I'm not how "egregious" it is.

Still, I wanted to follow up on your comment, but I could find no such
story on their website. I even searched their archives for the word
"Vancouver" and nothing came up. Perhaps you can provide a link to this
travesty?

Well DUHHHHHHHH - if you read it you'll identify that almost all the entries
are by a couple of guys who have a strong agenda and little or no
investigative ability.

I've read many of the articles, and I haven't seen them attributed to
any specific staff member. No author is listed, but a complete
bibliograhphy of their souces, with URL links, are provided at the end
of each analysis.

If you go to their "About Us" page, you'll find out about their staff:

Brooks Jackson
Director, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Brooks Jackson is a journalist who covered Washington and national
politics for 34 years, reporting in turn for The Associated Press, the
Wall Street Journal and CNN. At CNN he pioneered the "adwatch" and
"factcheck" form of stories debunking false and misleading political
statements starting with the Presidential election of 1992. His
investigative reporting for The AP and the Journal won several national
awards. He is the author of two books: Honest Graft: Big Money and the
American Political Process (Knopf, 1988) and Broken Promise: Why the
Federal Election Commission Failed (Twentieth Century Fund: 1990).

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, PhD
Director, Annenberg Public Policy Center

Dr. Kathleen Jamieson, Elizabeth Ware Packard Professor at the
Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania,
has written extensively on the press, politics, and presidential
campaigns. Her research into deceptive political TV ads produced
techniques that are now in common use in TV "adwatch" stories. Among the
many books she has authored a Dirty Politics: Deception, Distraction,
and Democracy (Oxford University Press, 1992) andEverything You Think
You Know About Politics...and Why You're Wrong (Basic Books, 2000).

Jennifer Ernst
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Jennifer Ernst earned her B.A. in political science at American
University in Washington, DC. She joined the Annenberg Public Policy
Center in June, 2004 with previous experience in the office of US Sen.
Chuck Hagel, as well as the non-profit sector. After working in the
Communications Department of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, she
spent timein Brussels, Belgiumworking as a policy researcher for NGO
Voice, a network of humanitarian aid organizations.

Seth Goldman
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Seth Goldman earned his B.A. in political communication at George
Washington University. He joined the Annenberg Public PolicyCenter in
June, 2004 with previous experienceasjournalist, press relations
assistant, and media researcher. He has worked at the Committee for a
Democratic Majority and at Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's campaign committee.
At GWU he founded and edited Sticks & Stones, an independent,
student-run progressive newsmagazine.

Note that their two paid researchers both worked for US Senators - one
Republican and one Democrat.

Don't give me that crap Todd, read the stuff yourself with the slightest
trace of critical thinking and you'll agree with me.

To, so far you are about zero for a million on this. Have you even
visited this site or did you get all your info from Rush or something?
Even Dick Cheney has been quoting Factcheck.org. Is he a sap without
the slightest trace of critical thinking too?

Put up or shut up Tom. Factcheck.org lays all of their information out
there to be examined. Go to their site and show me where they played
partisan games. They laid out their facts, let see yours. By the way,
foaming at the mouth and spitting on your computer monitor don't count
as "facts."

Todd Kuzma

In article t,
"Tom Kunich" wrote:

Now you're talking out of your ass. Among "factcheck.org"'s many
"accuracies" was taking that "dead bodies list" that was circulating about
Clinton, investigating the LEAST likely entries on that list and then
proclaiming that the entire list was false.

That's right. I forgot. Yes, everyone knows that Clinton was busy
killing off all of his opposition. Sure, it's been all over the news.
How could factcheck.org have gotten that wrong? I think they also
missed it big on the Moon Made of Cheese story. Did they send anyone to
the moon to see if it was made of cheese? No! They took some egghead
scientists word for it! For shame!

By the way, do you buy your tinfoil hats premade or do you make your own?

I noted an especially egrigious example concerning Vancouver, WA, police but
I notice that you didn't bother to comment on that one.

According to your post, this was a story about stolen yard signs. I got
news for you, Tom, that happens in every district in the country, and it
happens to candidates of both parties. It's not even worthy of local
news. So, even if Factcheck.org is wrong, I'm not how "egregious" it is.

Still, I wanted to follow up on your comment, but I could find no such
story on their website. I even searched their archives for the word
"Vancouver" and nothing came up. Perhaps you can provide a link to this
travesty?

Well DUHHHHHHHH - if you read it you'll identify that almost all the entries
are by a couple of guys who have a strong agenda and little or no
investigative ability.

I've read many of the articles, and I haven't seen them attributed to
any specific staff member. No author is listed, but a complete
bibliograhphy of their souces, with URL links, are provided at the end
of each analysis.

If you go to their "About Us" page, you'll find out about their staff:

Brooks Jackson
Director, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Brooks Jackson is a journalist who covered Washington and national
politics for 34 years, reporting in turn for The Associated Press, the
Wall Street Journal and CNN. At CNN he pioneered the "adwatch" and
"factcheck" form of stories debunking false and misleading political
statements starting with the Presidential election of 1992. His
investigative reporting for The AP and the Journal won several national
awards. He is the author of two books: Honest Graft: Big Money and the
American Political Process (Knopf, 1988) and Broken Promise: Why the
Federal Election Commission Failed (Twentieth Century Fund: 1990).

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, PhD
Director, Annenberg Public Policy Center

Dr. Kathleen Jamieson, Elizabeth Ware Packard Professor at the
Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania,
has written extensively on the press, politics, and presidential
campaigns. Her research into deceptive political TV ads produced
techniques that are now in common use in TV "adwatch" stories. Among the
many books she has authored a Dirty Politics: Deception, Distraction,
and Democracy (Oxford University Press, 1992) andEverything You Think
You Know About Politics...and Why You're Wrong (Basic Books, 2000).

Jennifer Ernst
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Jennifer Ernst earned her B.A. in political science at American
University in Washington, DC. She joined the Annenberg Public Policy
Center in June, 2004 with previous experience in the office of US Sen.
Chuck Hagel, as well as the non-profit sector. After working in the
Communications Department of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, she
spent timein Brussels, Belgiumworking as a policy researcher for NGO
Voice, a network of humanitarian aid organizations.

Seth Goldman
Researcher, Annenberg Political Fact Check

Seth Goldman earned his B.A. in political communication at George
Washington University. He joined the Annenberg Public PolicyCenter in
June, 2004 with previous experienceasjournalist, press relations
assistant, and media researcher. He has worked at the Committee for a
Democratic Majority and at Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's campaign committee.
At GWU he founded and edited Sticks & Stones, an independent,
student-run progressive newsmagazine.

Note that their two paid researchers both worked for US Senators - one
Republican and one Democrat.

Don't give me that crap Todd, read the stuff yourself with the slightest
trace of critical thinking and you'll agree with me.

To, so far you are about zero for a million on this. Have you even
visited this site or did you get all your info from Rush or something?
Even Dick Cheney has been quoting Factcheck.org. Is he a sap without
the slightest trace of critical thinking too?

Put up or shut up Tom. Factcheck.org lays all of their information out
there to be examined. Go to their site and show me where they played
partisan games. They laid out their facts, let see yours. By the way,
foaming at the mouth and spitting on your computer monitor don't count
as "facts."

Todd Kuzma

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
May you all have good food and good digestion on this day of gratitude
for the plentitude of resources bestowed upon Americans. And have a
thought or two for sharing those benefits with those who don't have
the same easy access to them.

And say thanks to America's farmers- who posted an average annual loss
of almost $2500 per farm in Iowa last year, which was a significant
improvement compared to average losses of $7500 in 2002. Without
them, we'd all be hungry today.

We live in the most free society in the world. This society has been under
assault from politicians and bureaucrats for the last 70 years since they
managed to get control of the American pocketbook.

They have convinced over half of this population that the government owes
them a living while at the same time rifling their wallets and threatening
them with jail if they don't pay half of everything they earn to the
government.

We have gotten appeals and Supreme Court justices who have invented
"freedoms" not written in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In the
end can only reduce the freedoms of those in this country.

This Thanksgiving I hope everyone here is well fed, well kept and well
altogether. Next time you think about the government of this country think
about this - if the press had reported on John F. Kennedy as they did on
Bush he would NEVER have been elected to office. That goes one hundred-fold
for Lyndon Johnson. But those men were elected and the vast majority of this
country supported them as Presidents.

You have to ask yourself why we ended up with a man in the Oval Office who
was running against a man whose picture is posted in the Ho Chi Minh City
War Museum in the hall of "Heroes of the Revolution". If that was the best
that the Democrats could do I suggest that we need a change in the
leadership of that party post haste. And I don't mean Howard Dean.

Those who don't know me probably think that I'm a Conservative Republican.
Actually I'm a Kennedy Liberal Democrat. But what I've seen will keep me
voting Republican for a great long while into the future unless something
drastic changes.

When Al Gore attacked Bob Kerrey it should have ended up turning the
Democrats against the Liberals and it didn't. What exactly will make the
needed changes?